Geoffrey Purcell wrote:
> Re pemmican comment:- I'm always amazed at why anyone can recommend pemmican. The whole point of the healthy foods movement is to stay well away from any preserved foods which last for decades, as there's a standard rule that the longer the shelf-life of a food , the lower its quality will always be. Pemmican is really no different in this regard from all those processed junk foods designed to last  years and years on the supermarket shelf.
>   
So pemmican = Pop Tarts?
>  
> Re comment:- "Starvation/malnutrition also leaves telltale marks on the bones as well"
>  
> As I showed in a recent post, there were indeed examples of telltale marks of starvation on palaeo bones:-
> I made that point re famine as it's commonly accepted by palaeoanthropologists that famine was a routine part of the palaeolithic era:-
>  
> "Combined with a relatively low average age at death, the hypoplasia evidence suggests that Neandertals underwent periods of nutritional stress or famine on a frequent basis "  taken from:-
>
> http://www.pnas.org/content/98/19/10972.full
>   
Yes...my point was that not all paleo bones show signs of malnutrition 
or starvation.
> Re comment on AGEs:- "AGE's require glucose and oxidization. Many studies implicating 
>   
>> cooking/fried foods included high amounts of PUFA's and/or other 
>> 'modern' foods including foods that break down to glucose."
>>     
>  
> This is very misleading. AGEs do NOT just require glucose. That applies to only 1 type of AGE. There is also another category of AGEs, known as "ALEs"(="Advanced  Lipoxidation Endproducts") which involve the oxidation of fats and don't require glucose:-
>
>  
>
> http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1067029/advanced_glycation_and_lipoxidation_end_productsamplifiers_of_inflammation_the_role/index.html
>   
Dairy products contain lactose (sugar).  Here's my overall point re: 
AGE's/ALE's: do they matter in a healthy body that is not consuming much 
sugar or inflammatory foods? This piece said over half the studies have 
been performed on ppl either with diabetes or renal disease. These 
people already have massive stuff going on, and the association with 
AGE's/ALE's could be just that - an association. This was interesting: 
"Experimental studies suggest that increased deposition of AGEs/ALEs in 
tissues is strongly associated with down-regulation of leptin expression 
in adipocytes and metabolic syndrome."  Metabolic syndrome = high 
circulating insulin levels, insulin resistance, etc. Leptin 
down-regulation = high triglycerides, which are a common occurence in 
high-carb diets. Suddenly, we're back to glucose as a factor, if not in 
their formation but in their deposition. Note I say FACTOR. Everything 
works together in the body. So my interest is if AGE's/ALE's are 
primarily a problem for people who have an internal situation in which 
deposition of these things is increased due to existing diet-related 
conditions -- and not a problem (or perhaps much less of a problem) in 
people who do not. HIgh levels are repeatedly found in ppl with chronic 
disease -- ok, but are they the CAUSE of the disease, or are they a 
factor combined with several other factors?
>  
>
>   
> Interestingly, it's been pointed out that the reason why so many
> studies (correctly) report harmful results from eating diets high in saturated fats may be
> primarily due, not to the issue of saturated fats per se, but  to the fact that such diets are also very high in heat-created toxins, resulting
> from cooking, such as AGEs/ALEs(in other words, raw saturated fats are fine but not cooked saturated fats)):-
>
> "It has been suggested that, "given the prominence of this type of food in the
> human diet, the deleterious effects of high-(saturated)fat foods may be in part
> due to the high content in glycotoxins, above and beyond those due to oxidized
> fatty acid derivatives."  The glycotoxins, as he called them, are more
> commonly called AGEs:-
>
> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=21074
>   
The control meal in this study was cooked chicken egg whites, and the 
AGE meal was egg whites with fructose? Maybe I am missing something?
Also: "Diabetic subjects were maintained on their diabetic diets, as 
provided by the metabolic ward, divided into 15–20% protein, 30–35% fat, 
and 45–50% carbohydrates, while breakfast carbohydrates were 
supplemented with apple juice".  It appears as if these researchers 
don't consider carbohydrates as particularly important in diabetes, 
which is both telling and alarming.

I do find this interesting, I just would like to see better studies. If 
they aren't taking other dietary factors into account, we're not really 
learning much other than that associations exist, but that's not a whole 
lot to go on either. The prevalence of focus on diabetics, for example, 
suggests to me that they're searching for a cause of diabetes that 
doesn't involve carbs -- in other words, that will fit with what they've 
already been recommending for diabetics.

Incidentally - I eat very lightly cooked meat ;) I like my steak seared 
on the outside, raw in the middle. I prefer fish raw. Just so you know 
I'm not some shoe-leather steak fan trying to justify her love of 
overcooked meat. (I do cook my chicken well, though not 1 hour broiled 
chicken breast like in one of the studies you linked!)