--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:12:54 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Joint pain
To: [log in to unmask]
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Joint pain
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:47:44 +0100
Well, so far the only way scientists have found to reduce the incidence of
AGE-levels is to either go in for low-calorie(caloric restriction) diets,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19420913
or get their patients to follow a low-AGE diet(ie wholegrains, fish, fruit, veg,
more or less , if only from a cooked-diet perspective)..Either way, AGE-levels
take in are substantially reduced.
Similiarly, there are studies which show that reducing the amounts of AGEs
inhe body also leads to a reduction in AGE-related conditions such as
atherosclerosis:-
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118510113/abstract?
CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
So, the issue of grains or dairy etc. in a person's diet is in a particular
person's diet seems to be unrelated to the issue of the exact levels of AGEs in
their body, though grains and dairy undoubtedly cause extra (inflammatory)
damage in addition to the damage caused by AGEs to those with
sensitivities/food-intolerance towards those non-palaeo foods.
Re hunter-gatherers:- One problem with that theory is that hunter-gatherers
ate a diet rather low in AGEs. For example, advanced glycation end
products/AGEs and other heat-created toxins are found in even higher
amounts in well-cooked foods such as grilled meats/fried foods etc, whereas
hunter-gatherers mostly just boiled their foods in water, doing much less
damage to their foods, and thus reducing AGE-content. . Plus, due to frequent
famine, hunter-gatherers were subject, by implication, to a lifelong caloric
restriction diet which would also help to reduce average daily intake of AGEs,
thus lowering susceptibility to arthritis etc. Also, Weston-Price noted how
hunter-gatherers would routinely eat sizeable amounts of raw/fermented
animal or plant-food which would have been free of AGEs.
Not that I believe that hunter-gatherers were entirely free of many types of
modern disease. I tend to favour the "nasty, brutish and short" theory,
myself. Geoff
From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Joint pain> To:
[log in to unmask]> > I can't go through these studies right
now, but you obviously have so > I'll ask you: what other factors were they
checking for? Were people > tested and if so, what was their diet like?
Rheumatoid arthritis, for > example, is also associated with gluten, so my
questions stem from other > dietary factors that may have been going on that
were not accounted for.> > Sort of like how ALZ plaques are found in the
brains of HG's eating a > high meat/fat diet, but they don't show any signs of
ALZ or dementia, > while ppl on so-called modern diets show both (plaques
and symptoms). > Same with arterial plaques. Something may be present
without causing any > problems - other factors contribute to the actual
symptomatic expression > of the problem.> > What I wonder with AGE's, then,
is if they are in fact problematic in > populations that do not eat grains,
legumes, sugar, etc. I think that > would be a valuable study.> >
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