On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:07:33 -0400, lexa_c <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

From Todd:
>>Some
>>people ..havve .. taken up the Enig/Fallon _Nourishing Traditions_
>>way of eating, for the simple reason that they found it worked as
>>well as or better than Neanderthin for them.

Lisa:
>I am very interested in finding out how people are faring under the
>Nourishing Traditions guidelines.  Is there a list or bulletin board where
>these people chat?  Have any of you tried both and have reasons for
>choosing paleo?
I'm interested too.
This book "nourishing traditions" looks interesting, if it covers
what the title promises. Various nourishing traditions contain
a lot of wisdom I'd like to go deeper into (indian, italian,various tribes).
Is it, what the book contains? (amazon reviews didn't convince me)

Liza further:
>..  I was totally bamboozled for my 10+
>years as a vegetarian. .. I really believed the party line which
>is that as long as you're getting enough calories, you're getting enough
>protein.  I was living on breakfast cereal, yogurt, pasta & veggies, beans
>& rice, bananas & Nutri-Grains.

I'd say that's perfectely true with any *non-modified*
(paleo like) plants - any plants.
And finding the right plants is a quest.
On protein:
Most fruit delivers 90%RDA protein per 2600 kcal (would need abt 4 kg/day)
Nuts and other fatty seeds about 100% RDA (would need about 400g/day).
Vegetables between 100 and 400 % RDA (would need up to 8 kg per day).
Cereals (wheat) 150% protein for 700g.
As soon as you switch to protein-reduced variations, of course you
can easily drop beyond the 100% or even 60% line.
And protein reduction is the *rule*, not the exception.
You mention pasta, rice, breakfast cereal.
Your yogurt was sweetened, wasn't it?

One more exception of the rule of enough protein per 2600kcal are pure
fats - 100% energy no protein.
Added cream? Olive and the very nice vegetable oils?
(these demand higher protein to equal fats out- like i do)

Extracted carbs and fat are extremely low-protein and high-energy.
Natural meat is the other way round high-protein but low-energy.
Natrual plants are moderately high-protein and at adequate energy
quite big in volume.

>I finally counted the grams of protein I was getting and was way under the
>RDA.

I guess that would be hard to reach on any unmodified plant.
Anyone care to provide a counter-example?

>The problem is this: Each time that I stick to the guidelines for about 1-2
>weeks I get this horrible growling hunger in my stomach.  It's not a
>blood-sugar drop kind of hungry which I am very familiar with from my
>former life - it's a gnawing and very distracting feeling.  Eating paleo
>foods (with plenty of fat) doesn't help.

If plenty of fats don't help, then it can't be a mere energy shortage.
I think that it's still from a carbohydrate lack (there are
glucose-dependent tissues).
Not the minute to minute hypoglycemic event (glucose drop)
you experiecned. But more the long-term reserves exhausted.
Tons of additional protein (and enough capacity in the liver) could help,
or paleo-carbs.
If you care about the amount of meat "necessary" for you (because of the
animals) then it may be a choice to eat paleo-carbs instead of
supplying your carbohydrate need with protein degradation.

>I need to concentrate at work so I end
>up eating rice or ice cream or flour tortillas for a few meals and I can
>get it to go away.  At least now I can get right back on the wagon again
>where at the beginning it would set me off track for days.

> Life would be a lot easier if I could make a sandwich
>from sprouted grains or eat some oatmeal (soaked first) now and then.  Plus
>it would fill me up better.

Oats and various wild grains grew since millions of years on shorelines
and grasslands. In the right stage of ripening they provide
food for many days in the effort of only hours.
The bad ratio of effort to caloric return is a myth. Just not year round.

If you hesitate to eat whole cereals, seeds (or even sprouts), there are a
few neanderthin-paleo carbohydrate sources: sweet potatoes.
And non-cereal seeds. Buckwheat. Chestnuts. Flaxseed.
Various other nuts.

Some more info on the extent of paleo-ness of grains, legumes, vegetables
(which neanderthin denies) at:
http://www.naturalhub.com/natural_food_guide_grains_beans_seeds.htm

And fruit? Can a banana replace your ice-cream?

May I suggest to run the daily food though a analyzing program
to find out which vitamins are missing?

regards

Amadeus S.