From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Enzymes and cooking (was Re: PALEOFOOD Digest - 29 May 2009...) (2)
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:58:22 +0100










Re T C Fry:- Enzymes are only one small aspect of the whole concept of raw. In the case of raw veganism/fruitarianism,  there is an extremely good chance of getting additional nutritional deficiencies,quite unlike raw palaeolithic diets which involve complete foods. Therefore, absorbing lots of enzymes via supplements or whatever, whether on a raw vegan or cooked-diet, won't be enough.

 

Re jamming on a stick:- it's only with modern methods that people can afford to go away for 10 minutes. Primitive cooking methods required constant supervision, for obvious reasons, given that wind could put a fire out, or the uneven rate of cooking if one doesn't turn pieces of meat over etc. And like I pointed out before, setting up a grill or setting up hot stones etc. all takes time.



Re spices comment:- The most common explanation for using spices is to add taste to (cooked)foods, so it's a perfectly reasonable point. Also, one of the common aspects of raw-animal-foodists is that they stop using spices after a couple of years on such diets, as they no longer feel the need.

 

re starting a fire:- Rubbing two sticks together is hardly child's play. Sure, plenty of people I've come across outdoors can start a fire within minutes using matches, solid fuel etc. but that's not what palaeo peoples had. Not only did they have just 2 sticks to rub together but they also had to contend with wet, windy climates etc, given the Ice-Age. I myself have done quite a bit of camping in the past and found it hell to start fires in places like the lake district at easter(windy, cold and very, very wet) and I was using rather more modern methods than just rubbing 2 dry sticks together.

 

Re keeping fires going:- Well, I suppose it depends on certain factors. I've camped outdoors with several people in the past and have noticed a few things:- even if the weather is dry and hot, a badly-prepared "night-fire" will go out unless someone is there to tend the fire throughout the night. Peat-fires were a nuisance as well, requiring at least some frequent tending, here and there, to keep them going indefinitely.

Re cooked-food preparation:- My own experience of SAD-eating/cooked-palaeo-eating is quite different, to put it mildly. As a youngster within an  extended family of 25 in a summer villa,(pre-rawpalaeodiet), I would have to waste  literally several hours every day sitting around waiting for the various relatives to finish their cooking for us all(no they weren't preparing gourmet meals but simple pasta and spaghetti and the like). Even cooked-palaeo-style dishes(like wild hare carcasses plus onions) took a reasonably long time to prepare. Can't imagine there being much difference with the tribal campfire being used to feed the average 50-200 tribal members in a Palaeo tribe. Cooking was after a communal affair in those days, according to palaeoanthropologists - it's only recently when people have preferred to cook on their own.

And when eating at other peoples' places, that too clearly requires a lot of preparation time. Usually, the hostess has had to spend several hours beforehand preparing the meal before guests arrive, then there's cocktails etc. so as to give the hostess time to finish cooking and bring out the food. And, again, only a very few such meals could be truly described as being prepared by quasi-gourmet chefs - and dining with friends/acquaintances is a common feature, even now. Now, junk-food-stores, of course, are much faster, but even they ask their customers to allow c.30 minutes for delivery after the phone-call.

As regards my personal experience pre-raw, I would spend an average 30 minutes cooking for my 1 big meal of the day. I was never a gourmet cook, in fact a bad one, incidentally, so I didn't usually spend much time on using complicated recipes.

The other consideration re going raw is the price aspect. One unfortunate characteristic of going in for cooked-foods was that my appetite was much, much bigger so that I would spend much more on foods than I do now on a raw vegetable and animal food diet. Cutting out non-palaeo foods like sweets/chocolate/ice-cream etc. also helped, but not as much.

Geoff





 
> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 15:22:59 -0600
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Enzymes and cooking (was Re: PALEOFOOD Digest - 29 May 2009...) (2)
> To: [log in to unmask]
> 
> > Re 100 figure
> 
> I was lightening up the mood. There was a smiley :)
> 
> But on that topic, TC Fry was a huge proponent of raw (though vegan/fuitarian). He died 20 years earlier than my father who smoked like a chimney 
> 
> > My experience is that almost all cooking requires recipes of s=
> ome sort. 
> 
> Again, *recipes* take time, not cooking (other than the actual time over the fire, which can be just minutes in some cases). Let's not compare eating raw with preparing a seven course meal. Let's compare eating raw with jamming a chunk of meat on a stick, securing it with a rock, and doing something else for 10 minutes.
> 
> >This is partly because cooked-food is actually very bland in tast=
> >e=2C so requires lots of extra sauces and spices to make it taste better=2C=
> 
> Your opinion. And, it really depends on the meat and its fat content.
> 
> >but also even the slightest cooking requires some preparation time. When I=
> >prepare raw foods=2C in 95%+ of cases=2C it takes a couple of minutes to =
> >prepare=2C maybe 5. With a standard cooked-meal=2C it took 30+ minutes at =
> >the very least(assuming no highly-processed microwave-ready meals were avai=
> >lable).
> 
> Let's see, the last time I barbecued a steak or chops it took all of what, 10 minutes maybe? This doesn't count the time it took me to start up the grill of course. 
> 
> >Then one has to take into account that lighting a fire in those palaeo days=
> >=2C as well as building up the fire and doing the actual cooking=2C would h=
> >ave taken absolutely ages by comparison to modern times.Palaeo humans=2C un=
> 
> I guess you missed my comment from a couple weeks ago. I am an outdoorsman, and I have endured a few bouts of survival training. It's *not* hard to start a fire once you know what you're doing. There are numerous methods besides the tried and true "rubbing two sticks together". And, while I was proud of my fire-starting skills, the guides who trained me could always get one started in less than half the time it took me.
> 
> >like us=2C weren't able to simply light up with gas/electricity and sustain=
> > a sizeable fire in a split-second in the way we can. So=2C timewise=2C coo=
> >king is a terrible waste of one's time=2C and certainly not opportunistic. =
> 
> Banking a fire to keep it live and burning for days on end is child's play.
> 
> >One can save hours of free time every week by just going raw.
> 
> Methinks you exaggerate a bit. For me we're talking about saving less than an hour, and I'm sure that would apply to many others on this list. (After all, many of us are already 80-90% raw). Perhaps if you were a gourmet cook prior to going raw your statement might be accurate. And it's certainly not accurate if you let someone else cook for you (ie - the dining out crowd).
> 
> But, even if you are right, think about this. It's been estimated that paleos spent maybe 4 hours per day securing food for themselves. (And some think that estimate is high). But, for the sake of argument, let's up that to the 10 hours. That leaves 10+ hours per day for leisure activities. I'm willing to bet they spent a lot of that time experimenting with all kinds of crazy, forbidden things (like fire and cooking).

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