In the article http://www.reason.com/news/show/28714.html by Michael Fumento
I was interested to note the following comment,

'What really counts when it comes to satisfying hunger, Rolls says, is
"foods that give big portions without a lot of calories. We call these
low-energy-density foods." She adds, "The Atkins diet would not be a good
way to reduce energy density at all, especially with the restrictions on
fruits and vegetables that are really the keys to a low-energy diet."
Further, because fat contains more than twice the energy per ounce as either
carbohydrates or protein, "high-fat foods are so energy-dense that it's
really easy to eat excessive portions." '

Years ago I wrestled with the big portion/low calorie type of diet consuming
mega amounts of boiled cabbage, carrots etc. to try to lose weight and guess
what happened?  I starved, I craved, I had low energy!  You see
low-energy-density foods actually do what they say on the packet!  They
provide 'low-energy-density'!  Ingest some fat, even a small amount, and not
only does the fat slow down the absorption of food, thus making you feel
fuller for longer, it has a psychological satiety value which cannot be
replaced by bucket loads of low-energy-density foods.  Furthermore as the
process of absorption is slowed, carbohydrate induced 'sugar' spikes are
reduced.

Surely the incidence of wide spread diabetes and obesity, which has
accompanied the blinkered adherence to low fat dieting over the last 30
years or so, cannot be a coincidence....?
Kate






-----Original Message-----
From: Paleolithic Eating Support List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Tracy Bradley
Sent: 27 June 2009 17:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Joint pain

That article was written in 2003, prior to his book. It's commenting on 
his article. He spent over 5 years reseaching the scientific processes 
that have led to today's current nutritional guidelines - he did not set 
out to write a book on low-carbing. It's just what the science pointed 
to. Have you read it?

"I was greatly offended by how Gary Taubes tricked us all into coming 
across as supporters of the Atkins diet," says one such source, Stanford 
University cardiologist John Farquhar. "I think he's a dangerous man. 
I'm sorry I ever talked to him."

Yes, some ppl were offended, bc despite what their actual work had 
shown, they were avidly against saturated fat, etc etc and so on. He 
interviewed ppl about their research. He did not set out to 'prove' that 
the Atkins diet, or any diet, was 'right'. He reported what he found.

The article (neither of them) doesn't debunk anything - it's a rant. 
Interesting for a publication called "Reason." I'd have expected a more 
reasonable, thorough rebuttal.

 From his own article, 'Busting the low-fat diet myth':

"Katahn's thesis was based on two different formulas that began in the 
medical journals and should have stayed there. Both appear to be 
scientifically valid, but simply have no relevance to weight loss. One, 
dietary fat converts more efficiently to body fat than does carbohydrate 
or protein. Two, carbohydrates, whatever the conversion ratio, rarely 
become body fat in any case. Rather, they are almost always burned off 
immediately as fuel.

If you think about it a moment - which, alas, no one ever does - you see 
that the second formula cancels out the first. It doesn't really matter 
that carbohydrates convert less efficiently to body fat, since the 
conversion rarely takes place at all. Thus we can forget the first part 
of the formula entirely."

He doesn't seem to be aware (at this point, at least - the article is 
dates 1997, though the research refuting this claim has been around for 
much, much longer) of insulin's role in the conversion of glucose to fat 
in the body. He's focused primarily on caloric intake, saying that any 
'extra' calories will be stored as fat (and that the body prefers to get 
it's energy from carbs, which is also innacurate. It merely burns them 
first. It burns alcohol first and foremost, if it's present, doesn;t 
mean it prefers alcohol)

What Taubes did was explain the process by which we gain weight, and 
demonstrate (well, he didn't - he merely presented the evidence 
discovered by others) that calories-in, calories-out wasn't the real 
picture - the rate of fatty acid inflow/outflow from the cells is the 
issue with obesity. If the outflow is slower than the inflow, you're 
storing fat (not really, bc fat tissue is dynamic, it doesn't just sit 
there on our hips). Your cells aren't getting fed (obesity=internal 
starvation), which in turn leads to increased appetite/eating, and less 
activity. Your fat will increase until a balance between inflow/outflow 
is reached. (that's the quick n dirty extremely simplified version, I'm 
leaving out a ton!)

Sensationalizing? Honestly, I don't know how you can call his book 
sensational at all. It was written primarily with researchers and 
health/medical professionals in mind, not the lay public. Again I ask, 
have you bothered to read it? It's very interesting stuff.



Tracy

Geoffrey Purcell wrote:
> I'm no believer in Taubes as he tends to oversensationalise things. And it
is possible to become overly fat on a zero-carb diet despite his assertions,
judging from other zcers' reports(for example overdoing the percentage of
fat in the diet >80%).
>
>  
>
> Here's a couple of articles which debunk many of his claims:-
>
>  
>
> http://www.reason.com/news/show/28714.html
>
>  
>
> http://www.reason.com/news/show/28715.html
>
>  
>
>
> Geoff
>  
>   
>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:32:29 -0400
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Joint pain
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Oh my.
>>
>>
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/01/tokelau-island-migrant-study-g
out.html
>>
>> Both sucrose and fructose have been demonstrated to increase serum uric 
>> acid. Fructose seems to figure prominently.
>>
>> From Taubes:
>> "Fructose, for instance, accelerates the breakdown of a molecule known 
>> as ATP, which is the primary source of energy for cellular reactions and 
>> is loaded with purines. (ATP stands for adenosine triphosphate; 
>> adenosine is a form of adenine, and adenine is a purine.) And so this in 
>> turn increases formation of uric acid. Alcohol apparently raises uric 
>> acid levels through the same mechanism, although beer also has purines 
>> in it. Fructose also stimulates the synthesis of purines directly, and 
>> the metabolism of fructose leads to the production of lactic acid, which 
>> in turn reduces the excretion of uric acid by the kidney and so raises 
>> uric acid concentrations indirectly by that mechanism."
>>
>> "Finally, there's the repeated observation that eating more protein 
>> increases the excretion of uric acid from the kidney and, by doing so, 
>> decreases the level of uric acid in the blood. This implies that the 
>> meat-gout hypothesis is at best debatable; the high protein content of 
>> meats should be beneficial, even if the purines are not."
>>
>> Taubes is in email contact with a friend of mine. The link I posted 
>> earlier from him was info that was not included in his book, and instead 
>> was emailed to my friend from Taubes by request. Well worth reading, if 
>> you haven't yet Geoffrey.
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>> Geoffrey Purcell wrote:
>>     
>>>
>>> Gout is commonly linked to the consumption of (cooked) meat by numerous
studies such as this one:-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://arthritis.about.com/cs/gout/a/foodstoavoid.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (granted, though, there are other factors cited such as corn-syrup as
well).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One thing that I've noticed is that acquaintances of mine who live past
a certain age always tend to greatly limit their consumption of cooked meat
and go mostly vegetarian as they find that (cooked) meat greatly aggravates
their arthritis/gout and other conditions.Indeed, it is commonly suggested
to go in for raw plant foods to avoid gout.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Raw meat doesn't cause such problems as it doesn't have those
heat-created toxins which aggravate conditions like arthritis etc. However,
for those unable to transition to raw, it is at the least, vital to only
lightly cook one's meats so as to avoid these particular issues or to add a
higher percentage of raw veg into the diet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:33:22 +0000
>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Joint pain
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>> Over the last four weeks I have been eating low carb, though not zero,
with a large increase in the amount of meat and fish ingested. 
>>>>
>>>> I have managed to lose 7lbs which has to be good. After following the
various discussions via email on eating zero carbs I decided yesterday to go
as close to that as I could. Today I can hardly walk because of pain in my
hip and knee joints.
>>>>
>>>> Researching various sites it seems that I may have inadvertently
created an excess of uric acid, leading to arthritic gout....? Can anyone
comment. I have not found the regime all that difficult and was pleased with
the weight loss, but the discomfort has prevented my doing what I should
have been doing today. 
>>>>
>>>> K McEwen
>>>>
>>>>         
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