> Ray unearthed real data to support his Paleodiet
> Hypothesis. Unsupported ideas and speculation are
> a dime a dozen, and in this forum seem mostly to
> distract from the purpose of Paleodiet support.

How can speculation and conjecture regarding a subject
detract from the subject?

> If Paleo seems to have some gaps, then further
> study & discovery, along with real field experience
> (that means from all of us) will make the
> refinements
> needed to firm it up on its way to Theory.

I agree. We get there by asking questions and
speculating about those gaps. You cannot have a thesis
without anithesis.

>
> >
> >  ... absence of evidence does not
> >  > equate to evidence of absence
> >
> >  That last statement makes no sense.
>
> =46ar from not making sense, it is an important tool
> in one's logical-analysis toolkit.
>
> Here's an example: that nobody can prove that God
> does not exist does not imply that She/He does
> exist.

Then the statement should have been worded, "Lack of
evidence does not equate to evidence of the contrary".
Inexact, glib, "cutsie" statements are the domain of
"spin doctors" and do not lend themselves to
understanding.

>
> >  > As for how grain/legume digests poorly and
> >  > afflicts the consumer with allergens, addictive
> >  > opiate-like peptides etc, that's old news.
> >
> >  Not necessarily true. I will grant you that an
> >  occasional bean meal will cause bloating and gas.
> But
> >  the *conventional* wisdom is that the body can
> adjust
> >  to beans over the long haul and "learn" to
> properly
> >  digest them.
>
> Provide some facts to back up this wishy-washy,
> unsupported
> assertion.

From the "Wild Oats Bulk Food Guide" (Adjusting to
beans)

"If beans are new to your diet, introduce them slowly
to allow your intestinal bacteria to adjust and make
bean digestion more efficient."

From "Companion Guide to Healthy Eating" by Natilie
and Shirley Nigros (Beans and Flatulance)

"...If beans are truly the culprits, the solution is
simple: Reduce the complex sugars or do away with them
entirely. Proper soaking and cooking of beans (see
prior subsections) can eliminate a great part of the
problem. In addition, make beans a regular part of
your diet. Then your body will adjust to the new
situation and the problem of flatulence will
disappear. Obviously, eating small amounts of beans
more frequently is better than eating lots of beans
every now and then. And lastly, do not mix your beans
with any of the other gas-generating vegetables that
were previously mentioned. Instead, you may want to
add ginger root since it may help reduce flatulence".

From Stephen Gislason MD (Toxicity of beans and
cooking)

"Lima and kidney beans are toxic uncooked. Both beans
contain cyanide producing compounds (cyanogenic
glycosides), which can be destroyed by adequate
cooking. Small amounts of cyanogenic glycosides will
be detoxified by the liver. Cyanogenic glycosides are
also
found in fruit pits millet, sprouts, yams, maize,
chick peas, and cassava root."

"An unusual genetic condition, "favism", makes some
people sensitive to vicine, a nucleotide in fave
beans; these people develop red blood cell damage
(hemolytic anemia) after eating the beans. Cooking the
beans thoroughly can reduce this effect. This is a
specific example of the cytotoxic mechanism of food
molecules, and illustrates the advantages of cooking
foods."

> I tire of this listserver being "mugged" by those
> who
> only seem interested in airing their pet
> speculations and
> religious convictions. How about some on-topics?

I tire of pompous attitudes.

As far as whether or not this is "on-topic", I believe
it is. Learning and eventual acceptance of something
is not accomplished by blindly accepting whatever
someone has to say. I ask these questions and make
observations to further my (and hopefully others')
understanding of the Paleodiet theory, not because I
want to undermine or detract from the discussion.

*******************************************************

By the way, a reference to the 1918 "Home Economics
Journal" mentions some experiments with wheat
substitutes. It mentions, among other things, "...
Potato Flour ... Peanut Flour ... Sweet Potato Flour
... ". Of these, I'd guess Sweet Potato flour would be
the most paleo. Anybody familiar with these or other substitutes?
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