On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:24:10 -0400, Todd Moody <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>Why are you assuming that all the SFAs are converted to MUFAs?
>Do you have specific information about how much SFA is converted?
>Is there a feedback mechanism that regulates the conversion on an
>as-needed basis?

hm I shoudn't. It's a worse case assumption of Erasmus.
As long as most or much of the >= 16 SFAs are beeing used as fuel,
we should not assume this.

Somehow the body seems to process saturated fat by desaturating it and
elongating it. The desaturated and long chain FAs seem to be more useful
in some way. Whatever reason for. Some are obvious, as for membranes
desaturated ones make them elastic and better permeable.
Storage fat also takes up more MUFA and PUFA, if more is in the blood.
I think this makes the fat storage more liquid,
and enhances reactions, using it.

Then there is the consideration of the paleolithic fat amounts and types.
They appear to have been very unsaturated and very few.
This applies to nuts and to wild game.

If, in this way, most fat of a hominid is self-made, then most fat
will at first be saturated - this is the first stage of self made fat.
In this way, it makes sense to have a strong drive of unsaturating
(and elongating) fats, to make them fit into the needed profile
of SFA, MUFA (for membranes and other functional purposes).

In the same way, the natural fat sources - may it be wild game or fatty
seeds (nuts) have a very high percentage of PUFA.
Typically about 30% or more, as I recall.

I think it can be assumed then (thinking paleolithically) that the enzyme
systems are adjusted to a high input of PUFAs (in relation to other fats).
This appears to be the case for d6d, elongase , d5d, which unselectively
process 18-chain MUFA and PUFA. They rely on a more or less matching
ratio in the input.

>Hemp is a nut?  I don't doubt that hemp seed is nutritious, but I
>doubt that it played a major role in paleolithic diets.

I think it's not native to Africa, but native to himalaya-near locations.
As hemp seeds are very rich productive, i think we can assume that natural
occuring hemp plants would have been gathered intensely by local people.
Less probable as paleofood as African native plants, but much more probable
than all new world foods.
THere may be many plants similar to hemp in Africa (like sesame).
A rich variety of nuts do exist, i had never heard before (like mongongo).

>But you are not enthusiastic about their discovery that there are
>*no* vegetarian traditional diets.

How old must a diet be to be called traditional? Of course neolithic.
How old is Jainism? Do they have a tradition?
I don't try o substantiate my vegetarianism by nourishing traditions or
paleo conclusions. Nobody needs a reason why not to eat a spider.

I do observe that the meat consumption of the present day society is way
above that of any nourishing tradition I'm aware of.
(today is "only" 250g meat per head and day in Germany)

Especially our white european anchestry appears to have loved to eat meat,
but in relative small amounts.

Such a meat "production" as today is not possible before industry time.
And the meat "production" of today is for me a very ugly thing.

>
>And long-chain are used as fuel for heart muscle.
>

It makes sense for the heart to help the body to get rid of it - if dietary.
And as fat (first hand saturated fat) is the main storage form of energy in
the body, it makes also sense for the heart to use the long term pool.
Also to *spare* the short term fuel glucose, which is sparse (out of a fruit
wood), which is essential for the brain, and which probably required
the downgrading of protein - possibly body protein.
The heart is a long term enducance muscle.

>> But *why is* the repair necessary after all? This is the (CHD) question.
>> There are indications that exactely the lack of EFAs to be incorporated
>> into membranes (to keep them elastic) causes the demand for repair.
>
>What indications?  What evidence is there that vascular damage is
>caused by insufficient EFA in arterial cells?

The indication is the fact, that membranes are more elastic if more
unsaturated fatty acids are incorporated into the PLs forming them.
I've not heard of studies examinating the PL structure of CHDeseased
arteries.

I'd suspect a stronger connection of bad arteries to ill-controlled body
mechanisms through wrong or absent prostaglandins.
Like water retention. Clotting. Inflammation.

If you prefer to eat DHA and EPA directely, what is your PGE1 made from?

ok ... now .. i'm heading south
south until the sea shows up....
it will be mediteraneum.... mare nostrum..

cheers

Amadeus