On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 10:59:03 +1000, Phosphor <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>>Is it possible to get 10 grams without supplementation?  How >much fish
>would a person have to eat to get 10 grams?
>
>very roughly..
>if red salmon is about 10% fat/oil, and the oil content is about 20% Om-3,
>that would be 500grams of salmon.
>however in true paleo diets sea mammals and fish roe, eels wouls also be
>eaten,

True paleo, salmon? 500g per day?
EPA and DHA is made in amounts by cold water algae (as a antifreeze).
Animals which travel from the cold water sea to inland are rich in it.
Cold water fish don't travel to africa's savannah. Same for sea mammals.
Cold water fish is not paleo. Unless you consider yourself a descendant of
inuit *and* you consider a few 10k years as enough for genetic adapting
changes.
Same for eel. Eel wasn't so good anyway, in USDA.
Only 0.08 g EPA and 0.06g DHA/100g.
(salmon: 0.32 and 1.11 for atlantic salmon).

Salmons occur once a year in cool rivers connected to the atlantic.
How did paleo humans (if they would be in cool europe) manage to eat 1 lbs
*every* day?

Btw, I discovered that trout (wild trout) is high LC-w-3.
(0.16 /0.4 according to USDA SR15). Thats almost half as much as salmon.
If you eat fish, trout might be a good alternative to salmon.

Trouts like cool and fresh water, not savannahs.
They are quick, I doubt they were caught before 100k ago
(let me know if you catch one with a sharp stick).

>the ideal amount of DHA/EPA seems to be several grams, maybe more than 10.
>to get this converison you would need about 100 grams of flax oil. in doing
>do you would consume about 20 grams of ALA.

flax oil has 52% ALA, 100 grams have 52 grams of ALA not 20.

> this is a recipe for cancer.

I suppose you think of the cancer risk due to undersupply of Vitamins E and
C because the requirements of E and C are increased by high amounts of
PUFAs.
Natural food items should have adequate vitamin E amounts for their content
of PUFAs (they need it themselves).

Or do you mean the increased cancer risk by overproduction of bad series-2
eicosanoids?
But ALA *reduces* exactely this cancer risk by reducing the amount of
series-2 eicosanoids produced.

>the ideal amount of DHA/EPA seems to be several grams, maybe more than 10.

You remember amounts which are used in therapeutic treatments.
I think it can be dangerous to eat or supply therapeutic doses of any item
unless there is a medical need to do so. Including functional foods.
In healthy subjects medication is not advised, IMHO.

The reports on health benefits from DHA and EPA treatments are overwhelming
for heart diseases, cholesterol and cancer. Impressive.
But that has nothing to do with paleoness, has it?

Peter wrote:
>Some
> even go so far to argue that fish are not paleo altogether but that
> belongs to a different discussion. ;-)

I tend to think so too, but it's always a question of amounts.
Without nets and fishhooks and in dry areas the amounts would have been
very low, I think.
This may be a reason that allergies on fish proteins are so frequent.

Cheers

Amadeus S.
(inland dweller)