On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:57:51 -0700, David Lewandowski
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Romans....
>>(how would you)  feel and fight if beeing without food..?

>        I wouldn't like it. On the other hand I would not fight for some
>fat ass
>politician and his beliefs. If for the protection of freedom and loved
>one's safety then bring it on.
>        I am an anarchist at heart.

I feel so too.
Of course the Romans pronounced to be "protecting freedom" at heart.
And the "pax romana" which followed the roman invasion did
definetively
have its advantages. Brittain used to regret the disappearance of the
legions (especially when germanic tribes invaded - see Artus legend).

I've dig out my Tacitus book. There I found mentioned a true
hunter/gatherer
tribe at the upper north/east of "germania". The "Fennen" having no
houses,
horses or agriculture, and living from "herbs" and wild game. These
are
interpretated to have been todays "Samen" (Lappen) of Finnland
(non-germanic
ethnography).

>> Humans had no horses until recently and buffalos run.
>>When humans begun to have horses and rifles, the very vast herds quickly
>>disappeared. 50 or 300 years are quick, compared to 10000, aren't they?.
>
> Ya buffalo run right over a cliff if directed properly. This was a common
>way to hunt them.

Do you know of such a cliff-site in the plains? There must be tons of
bone
remains at the bottom, if such hunts were successfull frequently.

> I am eating bear tomorrow. They have an enormous amount of fat just under
>the skin up to 10 inches thick! Possum is also very fatty. Loads of fat
>calories there.

Bears are hibernating and that's a good reason to load fat now, as we
have
autumn. I think it's a must for hunters in such latitudes with
winters.
A modern human can attack even a angry bear....
You don't mention one of the other animals commonly regarded as hunted
game
like moose, deer, wild pork. I suppose these aren't fat sources, as
the
Speth study showed (4% fat).

>        Are you asking where I might get 300 grams of
fat(300X's9kcals=2,700fat
>kcals)?

Yes.

> I also eat nuts and eggs. ... From meat that isn't much of a
>stretch either depending on the time of the year and animal killed. Think
>about caribou, seals, walrus, whales, salmon skin, crustaceans,etc.. Fat
>isn't that hard to find.

After reading so many reports about paleolithic nutrition and
nutrition of
hunter/gatherers I begun to notice that there's a contradiction in
assuming
a very high meat and fat part _in_large_paleolithic_timeframes_, like
in the
savannah. And even for contemporary hunter/gathering cultures.
The contradiction is that game is generally low in fat, outside of
cold
regions and beside some examples (water fowl and hibernating animals).
The animals you mention fall into this category - bears in automn,
walrus,
whales, caribou....
The modern solution is to breed animals with 20-30% fat (pig, cattle).
While it was possible to breed leaner animals, they are not accepted
by the
public and i think the reason is obvious.
To solve the "energy crisis".
This is not a problem of contemporary meat-eaters, they can include
liquid
oils (probably the best) or eat industry animal fat.

You seem to like it too:
>Bacon is something that I do eat often. Javelina
>has plenty of fat.

It's just, I try to learn about *paleolithic* nutrition, what *they*
could
have eaten. And if savannah animals weren't as fat as bears or walrus
then
the anchestors evolving there must have eaten a *lot* of plant
calories
(in weight much more than the meat).
I don't bother if some hominids were really living at the upper end of
possible meat consumption (I actually suppose occasionally intake for
savannah times).
But I'm interested in the *kind* of plants which could have
constituted
the other minimum 50% of calories, besides meat and fat calories.

>Agro-animals as you put
>it are not what brings satisfaction. Living as part of the living breathing
>planet does (at least for me).

What you tell sounds sympathic paleo-minded.
Bad for the bears, but such a hunted bear had a better life than beef
had.
If you don't get walrus or autumn bear, bacon will play it's role
though.

regards

Amadeus S.