In a message dated 5/6/99 10:13:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:

>
>  With respect to grains and (seemingly to a lesser extent for you) dairy,
one
>  has to remember that the very oldest use is around 10,000 years ago.
That's
>  only about 300 generations.  So for example, although descendants of the

>  first agriculturalists, the middle easterners, handle grains better than
>  scandinavians, they, too, would probably be healthier on a grain free diet.
>
>  On another note, check your PBS website for "Wilds of Europe."  The're
>  repeating it here (LA station) on sunday, all three 2 hour episodes in a
>  row.
>
>  Best of luck,
>
>  B. Lischer
>


I know the years and generations thing, I know about adaptations...the issue
I'm looking
to clarify or comment on is the "healthier" on a grain free diet.  If there
are so many
natives that thrive and live long lives on grains/legumes/dairy, how can one
say that
paleo, or any other diet, is healthier??

According to Fallon's book on native nutrition, native cultures ferment not
only their
milk (which partially digests the lactose and casein, which so many have a
problem
with), but their grains too.  She acknowledges that grains have phytates, but
describes
that even grains (like we do beans) can be soaked and cultured, so that these
elements are
less of a problem (obviously we don't do that to our grains in this culture,
closest thing is
sourdough bread).

These people she's describing lived very long lives, even if the
numbers of 150yrs or 100yrs is exaggerated, and they're wrong by 60 years on
the
former, it's still a llooonnng life.  And they lived it *healthy*. They do a
lot of physical
labor, some at very high altitudes, and don't get that decrepid (sp?), weak,
*old person*
mentality, or come down with heart disease or cancer. This sounds like
*healthy* to meee.

She also says, and I have to agree from first experience, that one should not
consume
*too many* grains, in any event.  As much as I agree with paleo eating, I can
not in
good conscience say that "it's the only healthy diet out there", because
common sense
tells us it isn't.  I am not trying to convince anyone that likes and thrives
on paleo eating
to switch.  On the contrary, I support it.  But those of us, and there are
many, Ray included,
that like to occassionally eat things that are *forbidden fruit*, I am merely
pointing out
that there are many, many people that thrive on them, and have for thousands
of years.

IMHO it is very interesting to see how different grains and milks are treated
in traditional
cultures, versus how they are here and now in ours.  The difference is like
night and day.
It is not a wonder why we are so ill as a culture.  But even still, *not*
everyone is ill...

One more thing, we love to use the Eskimos as an example of high protein/fat
eating, with
little or no carbs, and how they have very low levels of heart disease and
cancer,,but how
 come noone ever mentions that they have a very high rate of stroke??  Is
that healthy??

Thanks for the PBS info, and the dialogue..

Anna L. Abrante
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"...the more things change,
...the more they stay the same..."