Amadeus Schmidt wrote:
> >thow shalt not eat, then having
> >eggs to get the protein right
> I like your definition, Ben. But to get the
> protein "right"? What *is* right?
> Some assume a very high protein input, so high
> that most of it is excreted again (or burnt).
> (1) shows that the nitrogen if above about
> 40g protein/day is simply excreted - what
> means that amino acids have been brocen down
> to fuel and excreted N (ammonia, urea).
Protein appears to be 'lost' to glucose conversion
at a rate of about 58% regardless of intake.
You keep calling 70 gm per day a very high level.
Yet pretty much everybody else looks at it as
adequate. Numerous studies with athletes showed
that for optimal muscle growth intake of about .9 to 1.0
gm/lb of body weight is needed (for an average male
that comes to over 150gms/day). Would you please
site your sources that say that 70gms is too much?

> White cheese is a mild paleo violation
> -there is paleo-cheese (remember calves)
> and last but not least we *are* mammals :-)
Cheese is hardly a 'mild' paleo violation
especially cheese from corn/grain fed cows.
You should read some of the posts on no-milk
lists. And that last bit about us being
mammals is almost irrelevant - cow casein is
different from human casein. Bovine casein
is the one causing the problems, not human.
This has been covered on this list before
quite a few times. You have seen those discussions
and participated in them. People new to the
list can understandably not know this, or
have forgotten, but you are not new to this
list. This list exists to help those who want
help eating the paleo way. Yet you keep giving
advice that contradicts it all the time - from
grains to dairy to some others. The only time
I remember you listing your diet it was decidedly
NOT paleo - grains, beans, dairy, seemingly made
the bulk of it. The only thing that can be said
about your diet is that it's a vegetarian diet.
Vegetarians are welcome on this list and my heart
goes out to them because it is hard in today's environment
to get proper nutrition if one has this many
restrictions (vegetarian and paleo). But notice,
they are welcome as PALEO vegetarians. If they
don't want to eat paleo then there is no reason
for them to be here (at least not actively posting).
And don't take this to mean that I want them
off the list - I am simply pointing out that
there is a specific and focused purpose to this
list. Imagine if you had a list dedicated to
antique map collecting and somebody who wasn't
interested in antique maps kept coming over and
telling people they should use GPS devices instead.
That somebody would be an advocate for technology.
Non paleo vegetarians on this list are simply animal
rights/right to life advocates. I have no problem with
that belief in general. I have in the past struggled for
a little while with ethical implications of eating animal
flesh. Eventually I decided that it was OK to do that.
I respect the views of those who decided that it's not OK,
or that draw the line somewhere (e.g. lower life forms
are OK, higher are not). What I have a problem with is the
fact that this is not a general public forum. This is a
place for discussion of how to eat the paleo way. More
so, it's one on how to eat the paleo way as described in
Neanderthin, which clearly endorses eating animal flesh.
It is tiring having to address the same issues (such as
amounts of protein) every month or so, like clockwork.
Patiently people would respond to you only to have you
bring it up, as if it was never discussed before anywhere
from a few days to a few weeks later. If you do want
to sway people to the vegetarian side and still be welcome
here then you can start by giving truly useful advice on
how to be a paleo vegetarian, rather than health fallacies
designed to mislead people. If you were a little more observant
you'd notice how many disillusioned ex-vegetarians or ex-low
fat faithfuls are here. Even if you succeeded in getting
somebody to eat grains and milk just so they don't eat meat
(which you will almost certainly not succeed, given the audience
here) they will simply come back to paleo or to low carb in
a few years and be much more militant and intolerant to
vegetarian ideas.

I am pretty sure I have NOT changed your mind with this message.
I simply wanted to air out my feelings and frustrations. And
for what it's worth, just as you are not likely to stop advocating
vegetarianism here I am not going to stop eating paleo or
participating on this list because you are here. I simply hope
that at some point you will find other hobbies, get busier in
high school (sorry if I am confusing my facts here, I seem to
remember you are about 15 yo or so), go to college so that I can
discuss Neanderthin version of paleo in peace an quiet here.

Ilya