I find it interesting that although I didn't agree with Halifa's
motives being questioned, etc., all anyone could focus on was my
"vantage point" and take that to mean that I somehow thought that my
opinion was superior to Gambians because I used the word "vantage
point". And oh yes, fixating on my use of the term "sliced bread".
And I'd go back to Clarksville if I could, but that's about 800 miles
from where I'm currently living now. I love it when people try to
insult you and they end up showing just how little they know about
you, and making themselves look utterly foolish in the process by
using words like "hibbies", i.e., Ginny I'm pissed and I'm back.
Please do not insult our intelligence again with such load of crap.
Take that back to Clarksville will ya. I'm sure hibbies will jump on
it in a jiffy. God!"
And what is a hibbie? (running to find a dictionary)
I find this to be a bit humorous, and you've once again proven my point, thanks.
Just for the record, I'm not criticizing Halifa in this case, however,
I'm criticizing how others react to criticism of him. Let me also
state that I do not question his motives. I don't think he was acting
in his own self-interest when he went on the fact-finding mission and
was later arrested and charged. And I disagree with anyone who wants
to insinuate that he was somehow trying to better himself politically
by doing so, and that if he'd known he was going to get arrested, he'd
have not gone on said fact-finding mission.
I guess that's a load of crap?
Ginny
On 4/16/09, bailo jallow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Say Amen, Suntou.
>
> Bailo
>
> --- On Thu, 16/4/09, Muhammed Drammeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Muhammed Drammeh <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, 16 April, 2009, 4:57 PM
>
> Hi Suntu
>
> I think you are suffering from inferiority complex. May Allah help you.
>
>
>
> Muhammad Bai Drammeh Bin Alhagie Sheihu Muhammad Lamin Drammeh Bin Muhammad
> Kanday Drammeh bin Muhammad Kissima Drammeh bin Foday Drammeh
>
> --- On Thu, 16/4/09, SUNTOU TOURAY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: SUNTOU TOURAY <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, 16 April, 2009, 4:49 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Buharry, Thanks for the enquiry. As you rightly said, i did mention that He
> stood up to bully. But you have to remember, that statement was based on the
> initial news stories conveying the manners of his arrest.
> After evaluating all his comments pre and post his release, I have no doubt
> that, there is a likelihood of political point scoring.
> Again. if you read my comments properly, you would identify my giving credit
> to the man for some issues and hoping that, the noise that his arrest
> generated wasn't going to die down with the soundbites.
> I have seen few postings in praise of the bravery and gallantry of Halifa, i
> did not dispute all of that. But the fact that he utilise the media more
> than the other leaders doesn't make him the only opposition leader to have
> spoken on the subject or even did personal enquiry of the people affected.
> Halifa as a politician knows how to use the media to his advantage, thus
> feeding the frenzy and hysteria that always surrounds him from the few key
> drum beat party followers that feed on his every word. This is not bad in
> itself, but on serious matters like this, political point scoring are not
> what is appropriate.
> I did not write the piece Buharry to make any one wary of Halifa, but
> leaving politicians and their comments go unchecked is dangerous. Yes, i
> know also, some will use every corner to try twist the message in my piece
> in an attempt to discredit the analysis, but again, that is expected in
> political dialogue. I am questioning Halifa the politician Buharry, i hope
> you see it from that angle, just like the politicians in Sweden and England
> are question for their motives. I know the usual suspects will continue to
> come out until they feel, they have exonerate the man. But the fact remains,
> Halifa will always be scrutinise just like other politicians.
> Thanks
> suntou
>
> --- On Thu, 16/4/09, Momodou Buharry Gassama <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Momodou Buharry Gassama <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thursday, 16 April, 2009, 12:18 AM
>
> Hi Suntou!
> I remember you praising Halifa for "standing up to the bully" after
> concurring with Modou Mboge in an earlier post that "the community
> leaders, the women leaders, political leaders etc are all mute but a
> few. The silence is killing." You even went further stating: "Modou,
> you asked a legitimate question, but what about the hundreds of
> Gambians reading you here in the Gambia L forum? If the elders back
> home are mute, one can argue that, may be they are afraid to offend the
> system IE Yahya. But what about the capable brothers and sisters in the
> G-L and G-Post? If they can be quiet in matters likes this, what do you
> think will happen when they go to the Gambia?" That is why I have
> trouble reconciling those positions with your latest position on
> Halifa's stance insinuating that he had ulterior motives in "standing
> up to the bully" after all but a few of the leaders and Diasporans kept
> quiet. Do you see the contradictions? First, all but few of the leaders
> and others who should speak out against what was going on kept quiet
> and thus failed in their responsibilities. Then Halifa spoke and took a
> move that landed him at Mile Two and you praised him for "standing up
> to the bully". Now you claim that he had ulterior motives for
> "standing
> up to the bully". Can you please help me understand how you came to
> your conclusion? What do you base your insinuations on? I want to keep
> an open mind and maybe even re-evaluate my position on Halifa should
> you be able to throw some light on your claim that he had ulterior
> motives for doing what he did. Thanks.
> Buharry.
> P.S.
> Please find the posts I quoted from below.
> D.S.
> ------------------
> From: SUNTOU TOURAY [[log in to unmask]]
> Date: 2009-03-11 23:18
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: Halifa charged
> DESPERADO. The end is here. Bravo Halifa for standing up to the bully.
> Suntou
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> From: SUNTOU TOURAY [[log in to unmask]]
> Date: 2009-03-10 16:42
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: Halifa Sallah Arrested By Sam Sarr on 09-03-09
>
> Modou, an intersting statement: "Where are the elders of the country,
> the religious leaders, the community leaders, the women leaders,
> political leaders etc are all mute but a few. The silence is killing."
> M Mboge.
>
> Modou, you asked a legitimate question, but what about the hundreds of
> Gambians reading you here in the Gambia L forum? If the elders back
> home are mute, one can argue that, may be they are afraid to offend the
> system IE Yahya. But what about the capable brothers and sisters in the
> G-L and G-Post? If they can be quiet in matters likes this, what do you
> think will happen when they go to the Gambia? they will simply be quiet
> also. reverse psychology.
> Some may hide behind 'I don't time and what have you'. It is bogus,
> we
> all make time for things that matters to us. and in this freedom news
> paper and Gambia echo era, many of us read the news. how do we do that?
> on the net. Modou you are right, the silence is killing. and for sure,
> Yahya marvel at the fact only a few write about his crimes. this is a
> moral boost for him.
> In U.K alone, i heard that more than 15 to 20 ex-military officers
> claimed asylum here. among this folks are former lieutenants and
> captains. They knew what is wrong with our army and how yaya use the
> army to get his way around. Apart from Alhagi kanteh and Binneh Minteh,
> which one do hear say anything? Lets us pray, But God/Allah require us
> to speak against injustice and suppression. We are the elders tomorrow,
> the elders now are quiet and many among us are quiet today even those
> whose immediate families have been harmed. Is this how the western
> society works? be silent over bad happenings, they speak out, even
> against children rights, women's rights, rapes, theft, murders, let
> alone politics. many speak but have no interest in holding political
> positions. let decency dictate.
> suntou
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
> ----Original Message----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Date: 2009-04-15 23:41
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Subj: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
>
> Jabou, not to bore anyone, i see Halifa as a politician, if you see him
> as something else, that is up to you. I cannot control your thought
> processes neither can't you control mine.
> So please, cut the deceit talk. this is political discussion, if anyone
> let it boil his/her blood, then you need to start seriously thinking
> about future topics on Halifa as a politician.
> This is no deceit folks, this is an opinion. it doesn't matter if
> anyone insult, that is expected in political exchanges.
> Deceit, that is a game of politicians especially those that have been
> in it for twenty year plus. As you said, "Gambians are waking up" we
> all hope so. You said some good things in our last exchanges, and some
> erroneous postings, i analyse them on face value. If i am the usual
> suspect in the Halifa questioning, then you guys are the usual
> defenders of the man. I see the usual names coming forward, what does
> that tell us?
> What is Halifa's future plans IE in politics? he did mentioned that, if
> he loose his Serrekunda seat, he was going to venture in Academia, i
> feel that, he can do both. thus allowing us to analyse his political
> career from Magi Eleg to Voice of the future and presently foroyaa,
> PDOIS and the defunct NADD. It is good opportunity to know the work of
> politicians. Obama too is coming under scrutiny, that is the spirit.
> Haruna has maintain his stance all along, that is defend what should be
> defended and question what need questioning. If that means, ENVY AND
> JEALOUSY, Jealousy of what?
> suntou
>
> --- On Wed, 15/4/09, Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Wednesday, 15 April, 2009, 4:27 PM
>
>
> Haruna,
>
> I know you and those of like mind are proving yourselves to be masters
> in the art to twisting good intentions into bad ones, or at least you
> are giving it all you can, but let me re-iterate that what i found
> amazing is your warped view regarding Halifa's intentiones and nothing
> else.You know you cannot and will never be allowed to put words into
> my mouth, especially disingenous ones.
> Away with malicious deceit, especially when it is intended for those
> who do not deserve it and you know I am all for justice and fairness.
> I have called Suntou out before on his mission of deciet and malice
> against Halifa that he thinks he can disguise as civil discourse and he
> flatly denied it but here we go again.
> Jabou Joh
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 8:30 am
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
>
>
>
> Evian,
>
> You're a beautiful man. Thank you also for copying what Jabou had
> shared about my notes. I will take the opportunity to address that for
> Laye and Jabou here.
>
> Date: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009, 7:50 PM
> Jabou shared:
> [Haruna wrote:"It was when the onerous exercise threatened PDOIS
> electoral fortunes that Halifa engaged in fact-finding, the numerous
> rep orts and eye-witness accounts of it not-withstanding." Wow!. Truly
> amazing.]
> Jabou Joh.
>
> Jabou, I'm glad you appreciate the above fact as "Truly amazing".
> The
> response was as onerous as the original crime. This world is full of
> mirages. In Halifa's case there is a confluence of mirages: One of
> conscience and the other of interest-peddling. The conscience part
> however triumphs over the interest-peddling part.
>
> [In a message dated 4/15/2009 8:15:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>
> Jabou, Please excuse my grand dad for when the Tiger is in the Woods,]
>
> Evian I want you to know Tiger had already gone home when Suntou shared
> his Oped and the vultures began to descend on him. For no friggin
> reason. Trying to shut the man up.
>
> [he loses some of his reasoning faculties.] Evian.
> Do you really think yours truly skips a beat Evian? You jettison your
> own Grand-dad for PDOISard bantanbilly? Mbeemi, Achu! Atay watiladeh?
> Dang-Kutoo le bentehma. bahna!
>
> [Moreover, grand dad just cannot bring himself to give any due credit
> to Halifa.] Evian.
> Do y ou ever read or understand my notes on Halifa?? They are always
> chock-full of praise for Halifa's selfless efforts and circumspect and
> sobriety for the clueless PDOISdrones. They want to sweep us all up in
> their cluelessness. I am not a witch.
>
> [Why? Am yet to fully comprehend.] Evian.
> I gathered as much. You, like most other PDOISards will never be
> satisfied until I begin to worship Halifa for nought. It's in your
> bloods. Its not your fault that's why I never get upset with a
> PDOISard. E-bukay Taw. Alla La kaybaaroo Lom wolbayti. Ekoloobaliyaata,
> Ebuka-keybaa bunyaa! Ila Makkamol fanang mang Timma. Na Fitiyaye deng
> fitiyaye so. Na Lebintiman dem. Ndasimma Nke Nta Hayinni!!!
>
> [Bailo]
> How are you getting along in your new home? I hope great. Look forward
> to hearing you more often. You know your former employer is
> international should you not decide to change careers. Personally I
> think you are exceptionally well suited for that line of work. It
> screams out from your notes here and we are all proud of you.
>
> Haruna.
>
> --- On Tue, 14/4/09, Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jabou Joh <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009, 7:50 PM
>
>
> Haruna wrote:
>
> "It was when the onerous exercise threatened PDOIS electoral fortunes
> that Halifa engaged in fact-finding, the numerous reports and eye-
> witness accounts of it not-withstanding."
>
> Wow!. Truely amazing.
> Jabou Joh
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 9:21 am
> Subject: Re: The Halifa Factor, what next?
>
>
>
> Laye, Good to hear you again.
>
> Allow me to chime in for a minute.
>
> I totally understand your sentiments vis-a-vis Halifa Sallah and I
> share some of those sentiments. I also understand Suntou's oped and I
> share some of his views. I am of equal opportunity grace. What I see is
> that we risk taking this conversation to the sentimental and ecumenical
> realm as is usually the case when we speak about Halifa, a man who
> aspires to lead Gambia through the political party PDOIS. I advise that
> we bear on sobriety.
>
> I take Suntou's oped as a fact-finding query given the fact that
> Gambians have a cynical view of politic king. Perhaps Suntou can yield
> greater perspective on politics in this query. He is not to be
> dismissed for sentimental reasons however. It is natural for a PDOISard
> to be up in arms when=2 0their party leader is questioned but consider
> that with the requisite temerity and discernments, the questioning,
> even if disdainful, can strengthen the leader as well as improve our
> lot as a people.
>
> I commend Halifa for embarking on a fact-finding mission into the witch-
> hunting saga as a human being. Witch-hunting is the veritable insult to
> our collective consciences and acumen, especially one sanctioned by
> Yahya, whose faculties are not readily discernible. You have posited,
> and appropriately, that the onus of fact-finding in such egregious
> matter is not the reserve of Halifa alone; to wit: "Halifa Sallah is
> not and should not be the only person of dignified conscience amongst
> the leaders or those who claim to be opposition leaders in Gambia. What
> he has done and gone through demonstrates to all and sundry that you, I
> and every human Gambian must not stand aside and look while your fellow
> Gambian and human is being humiliated in the most degrading manner."
> Laye, you will therefore agree with Suntou that all Gambians have been
> equally incensed by the saga, but that Halifa being the leader of PDOIS
> had wished to capitalize on common disdain to yield PDOIS greater
> fortune. I am reminded that there are others in PDOIS like Sam, Sidia,
> Amadou, Samba, Suleyman, who could have embarked on the same fact-
> finding, but were they to have been arrested, they do not stand an
> equal chance of relief as Halifa had. To whom much is given, much more
> is expected. ;You will see that Halifa himself has shared in his
> defense of the erroneous charges levelled against him by an uncouth and
> clueless prosecutor, that he derived his rights from our common
> constitution and the fact that he is a leader of a political party. Any
> journalist can embark on the fact-finding mission and by dint
> of Halifa's association with the PDOIS party organ Foroyaa, he has
> added umph! These are some of the reasons you feel comfortable in
> comparing
> Halifa to Gambia's other politicians who in your own words and
> disdainfully "claim to be opposition leaders in Gambia." You know
> what
> happens to journalists who embark on fact-finding missions including
> Foroyaa journalists. Politics therefore was a major factor in both
> enabling Halifa to embark on a fact-finding mission. Were he not leader
> of PDOIS, proprietor of Foroyaa, a respectable contributor to the pan-
> African parliament, he may have or may not have entertained the risks
> associated with fact-finding in Gambia.
>
> The broader picture therefore is that even though many Gambians are
> incensed with the witch-hunting grafignette, our political leaders,
> opposition or incumbent, are the ones most empowered to prosecute our
> collective disdains and anxieties. This means that politics is our
> legislative life. Whether Halifa engaged with ulterior=2 0political
> motives or not, is therefore immaterial to me. However, ordinary
> citizens are free to query his motives as much as they are free to
> express repulsion at Yahya's motives and pantomime. It is in the
> explanation and general disposition of PDOIS and Halifa that will yield
> attenuated fortunes.
>
> It is unwise to compare Halifa to our other opposition political
> leaders from both a human standpoint and from a colegial view. That I
> think will be the height of conceit and an insult to our collective
> intelligence. And it unfortunately furthers the strictly political
> motive of Halifa and PDOIS. You will realize that we did not get to the
> point of Yahya embarking on repulsive witch-hunting exercises in a
> vacuum. Life is ever so dynamic. Yahya was enabled somehow and I
> suppose that has escaped us. That is the schematics of politics that
> erodes most future and "pure" goodwill.
>
> What Suntou is trying to figure out, is whether there is salvage value
> in the preliminary steps taken by Halifa and whether Halifa can be
> instrumental in yielding that salvage value for commoner good. I submit
> that the best way to achieve that is by all of us enabling our other
> political leaders in APRC, UDP/NRP (NDP), PPP, GPP, and GDP to
> coordinate the prosecution of our legislative life as Gambians. The
> days of bunker politics are waning and there are signs everywhere for
> the astute. We did not see any amalgam of forces by our political
> leaders when20Taf-Taf Yahya bereft of Gardens stole Brufut Lands and
> dispossessed Brufutians, nor did we see the same when Halfdiens were
> unscrupulously dispossessed of their homes in the name of port
> expansion.=2 0Witch-hunting and circumstance is tantalizing and a gross
> violation of human rights. But so are the myriad precursor trespasses
> that enabled it. You will realize that Halifa is not easily amenable to
> coordination of effort with other opposition parties. Glaring. The
> witch-hunting fact-finding could yield more tangible results if it were
> actively coordinated. But PDOIS is on a mission that does not seem to
> be common relief. It was when the onerous exercise threatened PDOIS
> electoral fortunes that Halifa engaged in fact-finding, the numerous
> reports and eye-witness accounts of it not-withstanding. Halifa's
> initial statements on the saga betrays ignorance to warrant a fact-
> finding.
>
> That is all for now. - Haruna. Allez-y!!
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/14/2009 3:43:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
> Suntu:
>
> Halifa Sallah is not and should not be the only person of dignified
> conscience amongst the leaders or those who claim to be opposition
> leaders in Gambia. What20he has done and gone through demonstrates to
> all and sundry that you, I and every human Gambian must not stand
> aside and look while your fellow Gambian and human is being humiliated
> in the most degrading manner.=2 0We should be thankful that we know in
> Halifa, ONE Gambian that will stand up to the brutalities of the
> regime and would rather die or languish in jail than to sit and see
> his fellow beings dehumanized in broad day light. To insinuate that
> Halifa was looking for personal or political gain in the exercise of
> liberating his conscience and dignifying the value of human life,
> smirks of debilitating ignorance and an insult to his and our
> conscience...God forbid!
>
> -Laye
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 4:08 AM, <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> An interesting oped to ponder Suntou. Discerner-in-Chief!!! I think
> Yahya
>> shot himself in the foot. And I'm worried about our two bad left-
> eyes. New
>> Kambians!!!! Haruna. You pamplemousse!!!
>>
>> In a message dated 4/13/2009 6:29:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>> Monday, 13 April 2009
>>
>> Halifa Factor In Gambia's Witch Hunt debacle
>>
>> By Suntou Touray
>> With the dust almost settled even though facts about the Gambiaââ?¬â
> ?¢s witch
>> hunting episode may all not be known, there=2 0is occasion to reflect
> over the
>> whole encounter. Men dressed in red raided settlements in search of
> witches.
>> They captured people of decent background and made them consume
> lethal
>> concoctions in the name of ridding them off witch craft spirits. Some
> of the
>> captives died. Large numbers still remain in biting pains, mostly
> deep in
>> their stomach.
>> Former Serrekunda East parliamentary member and sociologist Halifa
> Sallah
>> was last month arrested and detained at mile 2 prisons for over a
> week. This
>> was due to his decision to visit two villages over a witch hunting
>> incidence. Halifa after his release commented that he went on a fact
> finding
>> mission to the two villages. More accurately put he tried to proof
> whether
>> the witch hunting story was actually true or false.
>> Halifa was arrested afterward because the government felt that, he as
> an
>> ordinary citizen of the Gambia who seeking to impersonate the work of
> the
>> police or state security agents.
>> No doubt Halifa by all regards played brave by what he did. Why he
> did so
>> remains a question on wet lips.
>> Some people considered it a genuine move by Halifa to prove what
> others
>> thought a mere rumour. To others Halifa was in a publicity campaign
> for
>> himself and certainly scored political points whether he preferred
> using
>> that or not.
>> From what came out of the encounter Halifa made us all to know th at
> the
>> witch hunting story is real and the actions are sanctioned by Gambia
>> government.
>> What next after knowing the true story still a valid question for
> curious
>> onlookers. Will there be any lawsuit against the government for the
> unlawful
>> conduct o f humiliating and harassing innocent Gambians?
>> The witch hunting episode ended up projecting Halifa�s
> political profile at
>> higher levels. He was a victim of arbitrary arrest but that by itself
>> arrested the tormenting witch hunt at least until matters settled
> over
>> Halifa�s own arrest and brief detention. The whole saga
> eventually shifted
>> from the witch hunting focusing on Halifa. That earned him a high
> profile
>> victim of the unjust government crime of witch hunting.
>> Halifa made noise about the remote control Gambian constitution loud
> enough.
>> He defended his action by quoting various sections of the Gambian
>> constitution, a document he knows about inside out. Halifa knows too
> well
>> also that document is serving one man and one man only, Yahya Jammeh
> the
>> current Gambian head of state. Since many Gambians know for a fact
> that
>> document is not protecting their human rights for a number reasons
> one
>> wonders if there was any need for Halifa to labour over
> constitutionality
>> this fragrant government encounter with innocent citizens.
>> The gains of Halifa�s intervention can double20if he was to
> help the victims
>> pursue claims of damage resulting from such inhuman treatment. The
> victims
>> deserve good compensation.
>> The good efforts of Halifa placed him beyond the single position of
> flag
>> bearer PDOIS /NADD to the lofty point of standing tall for Gambian
> people in
>>20times of need. This is enough wakeup call for Gambians over length
> and
>> breadth of the country to resist the advances of witch hunters.
> Halifa can
>> draft a comprehensive law suit against the government as seen truly
> standing
>> up for the people. The point of departure would be the constitution,
> a book
>> fully in Halifa�s firm grips. Impeachment proceedings against
>
> the president
>> can be initiated, thus demonstrating severity human rights
> violations.
>> The law suits may not bear quicker results but to make the government
> pay
>> victims. Through that citizens will go long way in exposing the
> severity of
>> state organized crimes.
>> We await Halifa�s future actions concerning the witch hunting
>
> debacle.
>> Halifa�s political profile is undoubtedly boosted. Other
> gains
> exceed
>> individual political scores. Yahya should not have arrested Halifa in
> the
>> first place. The only reason one would think he ordered his arrest
> was to
>> cause wider divide among the ranks of the opposition.
>> Halifa�s followers have a talking point- our only saviour
> they
> would say.20He
>> emerged hero of the hour. His arrest has potential to change
> something.
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