Yes, and let's not forget the one whom all pastors of Christian religion
preach on, Jesus, and was he not  the ultimate servant? Laying all aside to
teach us bone heads how to get eternal life, and then laying down his life
for those who he knew would spit in his face as he carried the cross on his
bleeding back.

Brad


Vinny Samarco wrote:
>Hi Phil,This was very good.  I am reminded of a scripture somewhere in Peter
>(I think) which say for all to be submitted to each other.  Any leader who
>is truly called by God, and worth his salt needs to be submitted to His
>peers, His board, and the congregation, for you never know who the Lord will
>choose to speak through.  He even spoke through a donkey once.
>Now, as far as calling to the ministry, I knew someone who admitted one day
>that he chose being a pastor because the job placement test he took told him
>that he was best qualified for the ministry.  I'm sure the Lord was very
>impressed with that!  I'll make more comments later.
>Vinny
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 8:08 PM
>Subject: Shepherds Are Sheep, Too, Part 1 of 2
>
>
> > I found this again tonight looking around and thought it was worth posting
> > again.
> >
> > Shepherd's Are Sheep, Too
> >
> > By Phil Scovell
> >
> >      I have considered for many years the idea of pastors that are
> > not fulfilling their callings as shepherds.  This in no way
> > suggests that all pastors are not doing their job or fulfilling
> > their calling.  Readers of this will likely have forgotten what I
> > just said long before they reach the end of what I have to say.
> > If I were a wagering Baptist, however, I would lay down money that
> > more than fifty percent of pastors were never called by God to the
> > ministry.  I am not suggesting that they don't have a definite
> > place in the body of Christ, everybody does for that matter, but I
> > am suggesting that their calling likely is not pastoral in nature.
> > I make these statements based up familiarity, that is, traveling
> > for many years and preaching in many churches and meeting hundreds
> > of pastors, and from personal experience as a pastor.
> >
> >      I was a pastor twice, both for short periods of time, and I
> > loved it both times.  The first time was a stop gap affair.  They
> > didn't want me as their pastor, I was their assistant at the time,
> > because I was blind and they said a blind man couldn't do all that
> > needed to be done by a pastor.  They requested, however, I stay
> > and fill the pulpit as their pastor until they could find a full
> > time man.  I stayed for four months as a fill-in.  Stupid, I
> > know, but I thought it was the Christian thing to do at the time.
> > They finally voted on the third man, out of desperation, and he
> > turned out to be the worst of the three they considered.  Well,
> > four, if you count me as one of the candidates.
> >
> >      My hypothesis that more than fifty percent of pastors were
> > never called to be pastors starts with my own experience.  I
> > wanted to be a pastor but not originally.  I traveled for several
> > years as a guest speaker because I thought I was called to that
> > sort of ministry.  Plus, I believe the lie that a blind man could
> > not fulfill the complete ministry of a pastor.  Later, as an
> > assistant pastor, I learned otherwise and I began looking for a
> > Body of Believers to serve.  Talk about rejection.  Over and over
> > again I was turned down when it was learned I was blind.  After
> > three years of trying, I gave up.
> >
> >      One day, many years later, a man pastoring a church I was in,
> > decided he was tired of being a pastor and furthermore, he had
> > gotten into a multi level business and was making more money from
> > that than he was pastoring.  He turned his church over to me and
> > left the church and the ministry.  He left the church in a huge
> > financial mess but he never bothered telling me that when he
> > turned it over to me.  He also left his wife and five children and
> > began living with the former church secretary.  She in turn left
> > her husband and nine month old baby to live with our former
> > pastor.  In short, I had a spiritual and financial mess on my
> > hands but I loved the pastorate.  I loved working with the people,
> > praying with the people, and preaching and teaching.  I felt
> > honored, literally, that people would come every Sunday to hear me
> > preach and teach.  I was even more humbled that they would put
> > money into the offering plate and support the ministry God had
> > given me.  We did not hold a literal offering plate under their
> > nose either.  Not that I think that is wrong, but we just had a
> > wooden box with a slot cut into the top of it sitting in the
> > vestibule.  People put their offerings in so it wasn't like we
> > forced anybody into giving; they did it willingly and it
> > certainly wasn't due to my great speaking ability.
> >
> >      After all the passed due bills were caught up and we moved to
> > a more affordable facility, I began to sense the Holy Spirit
> > indicating that, first, I was not a pastor, and second, the Lord
> > wanted our church to close.  this bothered me greatly since I was
> > the happiest I had ever been in my life.  I did my best to ignore
> > the Holy Spirit concerning the church and my calling because I
> > wanted, with all my heart, to be a pastor because I absolutely
> > love people.  I could feel what the Lord was saying, however, deep
> > within my spirit but I thought I could turn the church into
> > something that would glorify God if I just did everything right
> > and if I could do that, God would be happy and let me stay.  My
> > mistake was not realizing that He was going to get His glory by
> > closing the church; not keeping it open.
> >
> >      As the months went by, I knew something was wrong.  It was
> > me.  I wasn't a pastor and I was pastoring a church that wasn't a
> > church.  Additionally, the Holy Spirit was revealing to me that
> > the church I was pastoring was never supposed to be a church in
> > the first place.  In fact, the Lord revealed to me that the church
> > was never His idea.  Then why did 150 people, at one time, go
> > there?  The pastor was a first class musician and he was a first
> > rate Bible teacher.  He was likeable, friendly, had a great sense
> > of humor, and he was a good organizer.  None of those, however,
> > are requirements for being a pastor.  They certainly help a
> > ministry but they aren't requirements.  God always honors His
> > Word no mater who preaches it.  Plus, this man had started the
> > church by default.  He admitted to me he couldn't get along with
> > anybody so he decided to stay out of church all together.
> > Eventually, someone asked him to start a Bible study in their home
> > and from there came the church.  He never said he was called or
> > the Lord led him; people just liked his teaching.
> >
> >      My job, given to me by God, was to literally close the church
> > without any encumbering financial indebtedness and that is what
> > occurred.  It was, however, the most difficult thing I ever did.
> > When we closed the doors for the last time, we owed no man
> > anything and the thousands of dollars of equipment and furniture
> > which remained, we donated to a couple of churches in need.
> >
> >      I cried rivers of tears and spent sleepless nights for
> > months.  I sank into the deepest depression I had ever known.  I
> > had failed myself, my people, my family, and worst of all, I had
> > failed God.  Nothing was left.  I became suicidal.  I heard
> > voices.  Anxiety attacks not only nearly killed me but it
> > frightened me in ways I can't even describe.  I was still 35 years
> > old and I knew there was a glimmer of hope that some day, if I
> > could just hang on, that I could be in the ministry again.
> >
> >      I started a small business which rapidly became so successful
> > that I found it difficult to believe.  I was finally happy again
> > but I wasn't in full time ministry, which was my greatest desire,
> > so I wasn't really all that happy.  When your panic attacks, I
> > didn't know what those were at the time, and your anxiety attacks,
> > which I did know what those were at the time, subside, and the
> > voices you hear drop back to a low roar, and you are suicidal
> > only once and awhile, that seems to be a cause for happiness.  It
> > isn't, and it wasn't, but I thought it was.  Demons are patient.
> > They don't mind waiting a few years, or even many years, to launch
> > a bigger attack, if that is, they figure the next attack will be
> > successful.  They are fooled and deceived, too, you know, by the
> > master deceiver, but I digress.
> >
> >      During the years I was in business, I still tried everything
> > I could think of to get back into ministry.  I tried starting a
> > church in my home.  I tried starting a monthly tape ministry of
> > Biblical teaching which I would mail to subscribers.  I tried a
> > live call-in Christian radio talk show.  I tried a Christian
> > counseling ministry.  Nothing worked.
> >
> >      One day, I had this funny feeling the Lord was calling me to
> > an office of ministry and that was the office of prophet.  I
> > immediately said, no, of course, because I wasn't even convinced
> > in the ministry of modern day prophets.  As time passed, the
> > feeling of being a prophet grew stronger.  I forced it down to the
> > best of my ability.
> >
> >      finally, four years went by and I could not stand it any
> > longer.  I told the Lord I didn't even believe in modern day
> > prophets and furthermore, I had no idea what a modern day prophet
> > was.  I suggested, if the Lord could prove to me from His word,
> > using the New Testament, none of this Old Testament stuff, what
> > the office of a prophet was in relationship to today's church, I
> > might consider His calling.  "Might" was the key word in my
> > prayer.  So, after a few weeks of suffering, I went to my
> > computer and began to study the New Testament in relationship to a
> > New Testament Prophet.  boy, was I surprised.
> >
> >      I well remember one night as I prayed in my office on my
> > knees, giving myself to the Lord.  I told Him that He would
> > certainly have to direct me because I was walking on unstable legs
> > as far as the office of a prophet was concerned as it related to
> > the church.  Nevertheless, I gave myself to the leading of the
> > Holy Spirit.  In some respects, I was disappointed.  I wanted to
> > be a pastor but it was not God's will for my life.
> >
> >      Within thirty days of giving myself to the will of the Lord
> > concerning the office of a prophet, the Lord gave me my first
> > opportunity to minister to a pastor and his church as a prophet.
> > I won't detail all that led up to what happened that day because
> > it would take some time to explain.  Needless to say, however, the
> > Lord open the door so wide, I could do nothing but walk through
> > it.  It was a bombshell, a bust, a train wreck, a backfire, a
> > galactic stellar explosion, a volcanic eruption, a munitions
> > blast, a bomb burst, a nuclear detonation, and resulting in a
> > nuclear winter when it was all over.  a I spoke for nearly 45
> > minutes, the Holy Spirit leading me every step of the way, and
> > when I finished, the pastor was mad, the church members, some of
> > them, were upset, and I felt horrible.  I blamed God for calling
> > me in the first place and I told Him what He could do with his
> > office of a prophet.  the Lord laughed it off and accused me of
> > being a big baby.  Well, all that happened in so many words.  So
> > far, all these years, never once has any pastor taken what I have
> > said, when being led of the Holy Spirit, seriously, spiritually
> > valuable, or even usable.  In fact, most have been ticked off.
> > You would think that response alone would make me consider I was
> > wrong.  Oh, no, not me.  I just plunge right on like I know what I
> > am doing and making enemies all along the way.
> >
> >      this all could be due to a couple of reasons.  first, I may
> > be 100 percent wrong, that is, maybe I wasn't led by the Holy
> > Spirit after all.  The second reason is due to what we all have
> > been taught about the office of a pastor.
> >
> >      Nobody messes with the pastor because that would be like
> > messing with God.  He is number one.  He is the top of the
> > spiritual food chain.  He teaches and preaches the best because he
> > is called and anointed and lead and blessed and gifted of the Holy
> > Spirit and who wants to mess with the Holy Spirit?  Come to think
> > of it, the pastor is even filled with the Holy Spirit and you sure
> > can't say that about everybody in the church, that's for dead
> > sure.  Plus, he is humble.  Nobody is as humble, works as hard,
> > and is as dedicated as the pastor.  He's been to Bible college and
> > seminary and he has sacrificed everything for the church.  You
> > haven't noticed how much he has sacrificed for his people but
> > that's because you are selfish and unspiritual and you aren't a
> > called and anointed pastor.  Plus, you are too busy being critical
> > of everything he does and doesn't do.  Additionally, he lives on
> > peanuts for sake of the church.  He could be pastoring some big
> > mega church some place but the Lord led him here so he lives on
> > bread and water because you need him.
> >
> >      Nobody is as gifted as the pastor.  I know this because any
> > time I have seen someone manifest a gift of the Holy Spirit which
> > the pastor of that church does not have, conflict is the result.
> > It is ok if a person from the outside comes in and has a gift
> > which the pastor doesn't have but let that person be a member of
> > his own church, and there is hell to pay, sort of speak, any time
> > that person uses the gift God has given them.  I know this from
> > personal experience.  I understand why this is now but over the
> > years, I was totally confused by this pastoral attitude.
> >
> >      Something else worth your consideration is how much the
> > pastor does?  I mean, he hangs dry wall, he paints, he cleans, he
> > runs the sweeper, he cleans the toilets, arranges the song books,
> > correlates all the Sunday school materials, shovels the snow from
> > the walks, counts the offerings, that goes without saying, fills
> > the toilet paper hangers before church each Sunday, polishes the
> > pulpit all alone, is the last one out, turns out all the lights,
> > locks all the doors, checks all the windows, and he spends long
> > hours surfing the internet every week for materials to include in
> > his sermon.  Not only that, look at the millions, well, hundreds,
> > of dollars he has spent on his personal library.
> >
> >      Don't say anything about the pastor because if you do, God
> > won't bless you.  Besides, if you say anything, that's gossip and
> > the Lord is going to get you if you gossip; especially about the
> > pastor.
> >
> >      Last, but not least, he is the man of God who hears from God.
> > Try and top that one and see where it takes you.
> >
> >      I realize that it is possible the somebody is going to think
> > I don't know what I am talking about even if I was a pastor once.
> > Well, twice.  First, let me point out that not all pastors are
> > this way.  I have known of at least two pastors who were not.
> > Well, one of the two was like this but only half the time so I
> > guess you could say I know one and a half pastors who weren't as I
> > have described.  Of course, I am exaggerating but tell me; am I
> > wrong?  If you have been a church member more than a month
> > anywhere at any time, you know what I am saying is the truth.  Why
> > is it true, therefore, if indeed it is, that many pastors are this
> > way?  Because they were taught it is supposed to be this way.
> > blame the Bible colleges they attended, blame their pastors, blame
> > other pastors who teach it, or blame their wives.  It makes little
> > difference who gets the blame.  By the way, most people blame the
> > pastor's wife anyhow no matter what the truth is, so you might as
> > well get started blaming her now and get it over with.
> >
> >      "So, what's your real opinion of a pastor?"
> >
> >      I'm glad you asked.  I think pastors are the greatest people
> > on earth.  I love pastors and they have one of the greatest
> > callings a man could ever have in the body of Christ.  To their
> > chagrin, however, they are not the king of the hill or even the
> > top of the heap; that is reserved for apostles and prophets.  If
> > you doubt this, read Ephesians Chapter 2 and pay close attention
> > to whom is attributed the foundation of the church in verse 20
> > and of whom Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone.  That verse
> > pretty well tells the story of rank in the body of Christ.  If
> > that doesn't confirm it for you, then thumb over to First
> > Corinthians Chapter 12 and read along about the body of Christ
> > until you hit verse 28 and see what it says.  In this case,
> > pastors aren't even mentioned.  That's kind of scary, if you are a
> > pastor, that is.  If you are still unconvinced, them zip over to
> > Ephesians Chapter 4 and read about the body of Christ in that
> > chapter.  When you get to verse 11, stop and think about what you
> > just read.  then try and use the Bible to prove to me that the
> > pastoral office is the top of church governmental structure.
> >
> >      I realize this makes a lot of pastors nervous because the
> > bible seems to rank them a few notches lower than they originally
> > thought when the Lord called them to preach.  It's all right,
> > however, because it's like I told a friend of mine once.
> > Shepherds  are sheep, too.
> >
> >      It is like the issue of women submitting to their own
> > husbands.  I have heard every imaginable theological explanation
> > of this Biblical principle but there is only one that works and
> > that is, the husband is the spiritual authoritative head of his
> > home.  Take my word for it, I don't even like that position.  I
> > would much rather my wife take all the blame for everything that
> > goes wrong while I get the glory.  I would much rather have my
> > wife stand before God some day to give an account of why my family
> > turned out the way it did.  I'd even pay her to take my place, if
> > that would work, but you know?  God made me the head of my home.
> > Yes, I have heard hundreds of sermons on this topic but I have
> > never once liked my position.
> >
> >      It finally hit me one day as I thought about it.  The Holy
> > Spirit spoke to me and said, "You know what, Scov, it don't mean a
> > thing that you don't like it; I'm holding you responsible for your
> > family."  I realized then, I can kick and stream and cry and
> > become a drunk or sleep with other women or blow dope until my
> > brain falls out through my ears and I will still be responsible to
> > God for my family.  This means, if there are demons in my house, I
> > have the most authority over them.  This means if my kids, now
> > grown, bring people into my home which are unacceptable, I am
> > responsible to do something about it.  Need I continue?
> >
> >      Let's turn this around.  I've known some women that like
> > their position in the family.  They would prefer to be the head
> > and to take the responsibility and some try their dead level best,
> > too.  Just as the man does not take his rightful place and the
> > line of authority is distorted, so it is if the woman tries taking
> > a wrongful place in the relationship.  I understand the old man
> > isn't doing his job according to Scripture but that's between he
> > and God.  I can't take the blame for everything and certainly not
> > for your own family.  Look, I didn't write the bible.  If this
> > bothers you, take it up with God.  My wife can stand in our living
> > room and curse all the demons she wants but if I don't stand up
> > and take the greater authority given to me by God and I sit over
> > in the corner saying, "Boy that's good," the demons are going to
> > laugh themselves silly and they aren't going any where for very
> > long.  Why?  Because, if my wife does it for me, she is out of
> > order and demons and Satan and even God will not function when
> > things are out of Biblical order.
> >
> > Continued in next message.
> >
> > I Flew Kites With Jesus
> > www.SafePlaceFellowship.com

Brad

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