I said there were a number of differences.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kathy Du Bois <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics?
> But Angel,
> Salvation is through Christ alone, not through belief in the God of
> Abraham. that's a pretty big difference, wouldn't you say? Not to
> mention that they believe only in salvation through works. they are
> willing to kill themselves because that is the best work
> possible. They want to get to heaven on their own, through the
> sacrifice of their own blood, not the blood of Jesus. Those are
> pretty big differences.
> Kathy
>
>
> At 08:36 PM 1/27/2006, you wrote:
> >I guess if heaven is not "material things" we won't be playing football
or
> >eating ice cream or whatever that was some wanted to eat on the list when
> >they at last got to Heaven. Not to mention the mansions or the streets
of
> >gold as those are material. Don't forget the crowns of gold and white
> >robes. In the apocalypse St. John describes a very material heaven.
What
> >about the glorified bodies we are suppose to have. Aren't they material
as
> >well else how in heaven's name are we to know each other. All those who
> >have returned from these near death experiences have seen a material
heaven
> >which they say is just as real as what we see here on earth. I suppose
as
> >heaven is not material I may as well forget about sight and healing in
> >heaven as I won't have a material body? Is that what you are saying?
> >Regarding Islam being a cult, this is not true. Their faith and beliefs
are
> >different than our beliefs but their faith is no cult. If you read the
> >Curran you will see they also believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and
Jacob.
> >They have also a strong belief in Jesus. One of the the fundamental
things
> >upon which we differ is the person/god nature of Jesus. This is a
> >fundamental of the Christian faith that Jesus was in truth God who came
down
> >as propitiation for our sins. The Moslem does not believe this. I
believe
> >this is the main difference between us though there are others which I
will
> >not mention here as I don't want to write a discourse. But to imply they
do
> >not believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is just wrong. This
is
> >why there are Jihads. They grow out of basic ignorance of the faith of
the
> >other.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Karen Carter <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 9:37 AM
> >Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics?
> >
> >
> > > No I have never read the Koran nor do I intend to read any cult books.
> >The Bible is the only book I need written from the real God. Father of
> >Isaac and Abraham. The Koran is written by a human wanting to think you
can
> >have material things for ever. The Bible says all these earthly things
> >shall pass away
> > > Yes we are to receive all good things but it also says there will be
no
> >marraige in heaven there is no need for it. Remember the part where the
> >women married the next brother each time her husband would die and they
> >asked which she would be married to in Heaven. None of them. Phil or
Brad
> >you can probably tell what verse and explain what good things we receive
in
> >Heaven way better than I can. Heaven is not material things.
> > >
> > > --
> > > I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
> >there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out
there
> >is
> > >
> > > IN GOD WE TRUST
> > > Karen Carter '74
> > > -KC- Ministries
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Read the Curran. It is 70 virgins and 70 brides. Doesn't the bible
say
> >to
> > > > us we shall receive all good things once we arrive at heaven's gate.
Of
> > > > course it does. These are things valued by Moslem men particularly
> >young
> > > > ones.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Karen Carter <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:31 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I was thinking of those guys who flew into the tower because they
were
> > > > told that Ala was going to give thme fifty virgins each and a bunch
of
> >other
> > > > earthly things. I bet they were surprised when they got there found
out
> > > > that there is no need for virgins because in the spirit world we
will
> >not
> > > > have any sexes. Plus there was not a sacrifice like they thought it
was
> > > > suicide and destruction of their temples (bodies)
> > > > > --
> > > > > I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find
out
> > > > there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find
out
> >there
> > > > is
> > > > >
> > > > > IN GOD WE TRUST
> > > > > Karen Carter '74
> > > > > -KC- Ministries
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > > Why do you say this? What do you know of Islam that you would
say
> >such
> > > > a
> > > > > > thing? I have very good Moslem friends and I don't believe any
> >would
> > > > > > sacrifice their sight to gain favor with God. However, I think
it
> >is
> > > > noble
> > > > > > to be willing to do such a thing. After all Jesus said it is
better
> >to
> > > > > > enter the kingdom of heaven with one hand or one eye or perhaps
no
> >eyes
> > > > than
> > > > > > to be cast in to hell for eternity. I wish I had that sort of
zeal
> >for
> > > > God
> > > > > > but alas I don't I fear.?
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Karen Carter <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:10 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: What's With All the Blind Clerics?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > They probably sacraficed their eyes or whaat have you to get
> >blessing
> > > > from
> > > > > > Ala.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to
find
> >out
> > > > > > there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to
find
> >out
> > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > IN GOD WE TRUST
> > > > > > > Karen Carter '74
> > > > > > > -KC- Ministries
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> > > > > > > From: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > > > > This is interesting. It seems the cultures with the highest
> > > > restraints
> > > > > > > > against our full participation in society will jump at the
> >chance to
> > > > > > cast us
> > > > > > > > in clerical roles as if to say, "God will embrace these
people
> >even
> > > > if
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > won't."
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: Blind World Magazine <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > > To: Blind News <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:21 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: What's With All the Blind Clerics?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What's With All the Blind Clerics?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > January 20, 2006.
> > > > > > > > > By Daniel Engber,
> > > > > > > > > Slate - USA.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Omar Abdel Rahman: the blind bomber
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Muslim cleric Abu Hamza al-Masri denied preaching
racial
> > > > hatred in
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > British courtroom on Thursday. Al-Masri has been linked to
the
> > > > > > would-be
> > > > > > > > > shoe-bomber Richard Reid and stands accused of starting a
> > > > terrorist
> > > > > > > > training
> > > > > > > > > camp in Oregon. Most news reports also mention that
al-Masri
> >has
> > > > only
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > > > > eye and no hands. It seems like we're always hearing about
> >blind
> > > > or
> > > > > > > > > half-blind Muslim clerics-what's the deal?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is a pattern of the blind leading the not-blind in
> >modern
> > > > Islam.
> > > > > > A
> > > > > > > > > traditional Muslim education in some ways favors the
blind,
> >since
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > proceeds largely through the repetition and memorization
of
> >sacred
> > > > > > texts.
> > > > > > > > > Children chant Quranic verses until they know them by
heart;
> >those
> > > > who
> > > > > > > > learn
> > > > > > > > > the whole book often receive advanced religious training.
> >Blind
> > > > > > kids-who
> > > > > > > > > often make up for their disability with a finely tuned
sense
> >of
> > > > > > > > hearing-tend
> > > > > > > > > to do quite well at this.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Children who can't see may also get pushed toward the
clergy
> >by
> > > > their
> > > > > > > > > parents. Clerics often preach through the artful
recitation of
> >the
> > > > > > > > > Quran-something a blind person can learn to do as well as
> >anyone
> > > > else.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > same child would be at a severe disadvantage in a
conventional
> > > > > > classroom,
> > > > > > > > > and he'd have a harder time holding down a regular job.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Muslims have revered blind clerics for over 1,000 years.
In
> >one
> > > > scene
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Quran, the Prophet frowns and turns away from a blind man,
> >only to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > Allah castigate him for rejecting a spiritual seeker. The
man,
> > > > called
> > > > > > > > > Abdullah ibn Umm Maktum, became an important early
follower of
> >the
> > > > > > > > Prophet.
> > > > > > > > > (The tradition of blind religious figures extends back to
> >early
> > > > > > Judaism
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > Christianity as well.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Today, even blind people without religious training enjoy
a
> > > > certain
> > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > respect in the Muslim world. Turks, for example, refer to
a
> >blind
> > > > man
> > > > > > as a
> > > > > > > > > hafiz-meaning one who has completely memorized the
> >Quran-whether
> > > > or
> > > > > > not he
> > > > > > > > > has earned the title. In Egypt, blind men are casually
> >described
> > > > as
> > > > > > > > > moulanas, a term of respect given to Muslim scholars.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Another factor in the prevalence of blind clerics may be
the
> >high
> > > > > > rates of
> > > > > > > > > blindness in Arab countries. A 2002 study, for example,
> >reveals a
> > > > dire
> > > > > > > > > situation in Lebanon, Oman, and Morocco, where more than 5
> >percent
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > people over the age of 50 couldn't see.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The blind clerics most often mentioned in the Western
press
> >are
> > > > > > radical
> > > > > > > > > jihadis like Abu Hamza al-Masri or Sheik Omar Abdel
Rahman-the
> > > > "blind
> > > > > > > > sheik"
> > > > > > > > > accused of masterminding the World Trade Center bombing of
> >1993.
> > > > But
> > > > > > blind
> > > > > > > > > clerics are just as likely to be moderates. The revered
Saudi
> > > > > > Abdelaziz
> > > > > > > > ibn
> > > > > > > > > Baaz, for example, renounced violence in the name of
> >installing
> > > > > > Islamic
> > > > > > > > > governments. He also issued a fatwa allowing Muslim men to
> >take
> > > > > > Viagra.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In fact, blindness could be a liability within the most
> >militant
> > > > sects
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > Islam. In the 1980s, members of the Egyptian jihad
movement
> > > > debated
> > > > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > Abdel Rahman's blindness made him a poor operational
leader.
> >The
> > > > > > strongest
> > > > > > > > > voice opposing him belonged to Ayman al-Zawahiri, now
thought
> >to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > > al-Qaida's No. 2 figure.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Explainer thanks Richard Antoun of the State University of
New
> > > > York,
> > > > > > > > Mahmoud
> > > > > > > > > Ayoub of Temple University, Fawaz Gerges of Sarah
Lawrence,
> >and
> > > > > > Valerie
> > > > > > > > > Hoffman of the University of Illinois.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Source URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2134506/#.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > BlindNews mailing list
> > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Address message to list by sending mail to:
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Access your subscription info at:
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> > > > > >
> > > >
>
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