I was in Russia recently.  The 'capitalism' is primarily people selling
tourist trinckets on the streets.  There is really little structural change
in the country; not surpisingly considering the long history of socialism
in Russia, even prior to 1917.  The major change has been the 'market
economy; and this as usual (it really is the lifting of price controls)
as usual has been a minor disaster.  In fact the market values impoverish
the people in every country.
wcm
>
> El 17 May 97 a las 11:03, Robert G Goodby nos dice(n):
>
> > It should also be noted that the "capitalist" world includes, not
> > coincidentally, some of the most repressive and impoverished
> > societies on the planet.
>
> I should add that most of the former "socialist" countries, and
> particularly Russia, will be forced into this kind of capitalist
> status.  This is the intention of "developed" capitalist nations, and
> Noam Chomsky has very intelligently perceived it immediately upon the
> destruction of the former USSR.  He pointed out in an article -which
> I read on an Argentine paper and did not keep with me, but perhaps
> someone in the list has-  that the future for Russia was not the
> United States, it was Brazil instead.  This is a very thoughtful
> approach to the "downfall of the house of Lenin" issue.
>
> > That some have, in the name of socialism, created tyrannical social
> > and political systems says nothing about the worth of the socialist
> > ideal. It is one of the most common, and monstrous, non sequiters to
> > dismiss the ideal of socialism because of the failure of the USSR,
> > etc. One could with equal validity dismiss the IDEALS of
> > Christianity because of the inquisition, or the ideal of democracy
> > because of the corporate tyranny currently existing in the U.S., or
> > modern medicine because of the work of Mengele. The failure to put
> > ideals into practice only suggests we should try harder, or seek
> > alternative means.
> >
> > Robert Goodby
>
>
> Thank you, Robert, for the diamond-cut clearness of this comparison.
>
> Of course, when leaving, say, Stalinist Hungary for the United States
> you can feel relieved, and so on (something still remains: the sense
> of vacuity of being transplanted to a society where the dominant
> trend is to overstate personal material welfare as a measurement rod
> for personal worthiness).  But the true face of the United States
> should not be investigated within its frontiers, not even among
> American poor and homeless people.  It should be looked at in Latin
> America, in Asia, in Africa, at the sources of American (and Western
> European) power.  I would like to know what would the Hungarian of my
> example think about capitalism were she/he transported not to the
> rich paradise but to the basement of capitalism. Say, change her/his
> fate as a worker at some old fashioned tools factory for a new fate as a
> sugarcane harvester in Northeastern Brazil.
>
> This is not an impossible tale. There are some
> examples of the fate falling upon former USSR citizens left by the
> tide at the shores of Buenos Aires (a brilliant example of the
> capitalist recipes) which can be as revealing as my hypothetical
> case.  They are, simply, beggars in a country that forces its own
> citizens into increasingly lower wages, increasingly lower living
> standards, increasingly higher crime rates.
>
> This is also, and essentially, capitalism. This is what socialism
> (whatever you want to define by this word) will destroy some day.
> Unless we want our species to be destroyed.
>
> Greetings to all.
> Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky
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>