El 17 May 97 a las 11:03, Robert G Goodby nos dice(n):

> It should also be noted that the "capitalist" world includes, not
> coincidentally, some of the most repressive and impoverished
> societies on the planet.

I should add that most of the former "socialist" countries, and
particularly Russia, will be forced into this kind of capitalist
status.  This is the intention of "developed" capitalist nations, and
Noam Chomsky has very intelligently perceived it immediately upon the
destruction of the former USSR.  He pointed out in an article -which
I read on an Argentine paper and did not keep with me, but perhaps
someone in the list has-  that the future for Russia was not the
United States, it was Brazil instead.  This is a very thoughtful
approach to the "downfall of the house of Lenin" issue.

> That some have, in the name of socialism, created tyrannical social
> and political systems says nothing about the worth of the socialist
> ideal. It is one of the most common, and monstrous, non sequiters to
> dismiss the ideal of socialism because of the failure of the USSR,
> etc. One could with equal validity dismiss the IDEALS of
> Christianity because of the inquisition, or the ideal of democracy
> because of the corporate tyranny currently existing in the U.S., or
> modern medicine because of the work of Mengele. The failure to put
> ideals into practice only suggests we should try harder, or seek
> alternative means.
>
> Robert Goodby


Thank you, Robert, for the diamond-cut clearness of this comparison.

Of course, when leaving, say, Stalinist Hungary for the United States
you can feel relieved, and so on (something still remains: the sense
of vacuity of being transplanted to a society where the dominant
trend is to overstate personal material welfare as a measurement rod
for personal worthiness).  But the true face of the United States
should not be investigated within its frontiers, not even among
American poor and homeless people.  It should be looked at in Latin
America, in Asia, in Africa, at the sources of American (and Western
European) power.  I would like to know what would the Hungarian of my
example think about capitalism were she/he transported not to the
rich paradise but to the basement of capitalism. Say, change her/his
fate as a worker at some old fashioned tools factory for a new fate as a
sugarcane harvester in Northeastern Brazil.

This is not an impossible tale. There are some
examples of the fate falling upon former USSR citizens left by the
tide at the shores of Buenos Aires (a brilliant example of the
capitalist recipes) which can be as revealing as my hypothetical
case.  They are, simply, beggars in a country that forces its own
citizens into increasingly lower wages, increasingly lower living
standards, increasingly higher crime rates.

This is also, and essentially, capitalism. This is what socialism
(whatever you want to define by this word) will destroy some day.
Unless we want our species to be destroyed.

Greetings to all.
Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky
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