>
> Reading phrases like "economic flaws of capitalism" in a discussion about
> "socialist unions" makes me wonder. Are we still entertaining notions of
> socialism being a better system than capitalism after the upheaval of the
> last ten years caused by the collapse of the Soviet Union? My comments do
> not stem from a familiarity with Chomsky's theories. They are more a product
> of working with people who have fled socialist tyranny around the world and
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> who scoff at any attempt to convey respect for anything socialist. These
> people are simply relieved to be in a capitalist society - with all its flaws.


The Soviet Union and its Eastern European allies did not represent pure
Socialism.  Socialism is not (and never was) about extreme state control,
which is what the political basis of these states was, but the exact
opposite. In other words you can be a Socialist and denounce the Soviet
system quite happily, on grounds of its totalitarian political nature. In
fact I would say to be a true Socialist you must denounce it.


> I would have thought that it was abundantly clear - and again this is not
> from a theoretical standpoint - that socialism has failed in practice and
> that capitalist societies have shown themselves to be remarkably resilient

The Soviet Union wasn't as good a good competitor against Capitalist
states in the economic arena. True. But, morally, so what? And how do you
then jump to the conclusion that "socialism has failed in practice"? In
what way do you mean "failed", exactly?


> in providing comparatively better lives for their citizens. People can

        Here I can argue that a lot of the poorer people living in rich
countries are worse off materially and have less prospects for bettering
their children than anybody living under the Soviet system. (Been to New
York recently...?)

        But perhaps more importantly, as you mention the key words "their
citizens", I would like to point out that poverty and tyranny can be
'exported'. Or, doesn't the non-white 'third world' matter?  I am assuming
you are aware of the great contribution of the major capitalist powers in
the continuing misery of the underdeveloped world. If you are not, read
Chomsky.

Ihab el-Sakkout