Kyle,
Thanks for the "deep background," I was mostly kidding, but this is good
information to have!
On Dec 10, 2007 6:11 AM, Cleveland, Kyle E. <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Ken, et al,
>
> I know this started off as a funny, but this Ken's fellow Ken's talking
> about really started a firestorm of discussion in the military
> community. Here's some background on the fellow from the wire service:
>
> "Keith Kerr, retired Colonel., U.S. Army; retired Brigadier General,
> California National Reserve, who submitted a question about gays in the
> military, is a member of Hillary Clinton's 'Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and
> Transexual Americans For Hillary' Steering Committee. He's also part of
> a film production crew trying overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
> policy."
>
> From his bio on Servicemembers Legal Defense Network where he is on the
> Military Advisory Council:
>
>
> "He retired from the U. S. Army Reserve in 1986 with the rank of Colonel
> and was commissioned in the California State Military Reserve
> (California National Guard) on 15 March 1986, where his assignments were
> Inspector Generaland later, Chief of Staff. He was appointed Commanding
> General, Northern Area Command, CSMR, with headquarters at Alameda Naval
> Supply Depot, Alameda, CA and promoted to Brigadier General on 21
> February 1991. He held this position until reassigned to State
> Headquarters on 31 July 1995. General Kerr retired on 1 June 1996 after
> 43 years of service to the United States and the State of California."
>
> "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was one of the worst edicts to come out of the
> Clinton White House. In a misguided attempt to help the cause of gay
> folks in the military, it actually forced many out of the system. There
> have always been bunches of gays in the military--especially since the
> integration of women into Combat Support and Combat Service Support
> teams.
>
> Prior to DADT, nobody cared because gay folks steered themselves toward
> the services and jobs that were under the radar. DADT was unofficially
> in place long before the law was passed. Used to be, when a kid wanted
> out of his/her enlistment contract they would go to their CO and say, "I
> want to quit, so I'm gay--you need to put me out." They'd get a
> "General Discharge under Honorable Conditions" and that was it. NOW
> there has to be an investigation and the CO has to determine if there
> was sexual activity and who the partner was. Say you have two lesbians
> in a relationship and one wants leave before her commitment is up. If
> she goes to the CO, then that commander has to verify the act(s) and if
> they were with another soldier. The other soldier, who wants to stay
> in, has to testify under oath whether or not she had a sexual
> relationship with the other soldier. Either way, both of their military
> careers are shot and they may get discharged under "Less That Honorable
> Conditions". You can't use your veteran status for job seeking at that
> point. In these cases the soldier who wants to leave will be strongly
> advised to Chapter 15 out on "Drug and Alcohol" issues with a General
> Discharge. DADT is a screwed-up law that never needed to be there in
> the first place.
>
> I saw the debate live and was embarrassed by GEN Kerr's grandstanding.
> It was very awkward and certainly did nothing to help the gay community.
> On top of that, if he WAS gay during his time in service and committed a
> sexual act prohibited by the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ),
> then he should have his retirement package revoked. This has happened
> to numerous officers who have committed adultery while in service
> (adultery is another act prohibited by the UCMJ).
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of ken barber
> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 9:56 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: what would you do?
>
> you know i wonder why the question on that came up in
> the GOP debate when "don't ask, don't tell" was/is a
> clinton policy. the clinton news network picked the
> question and flew the guy from florida and it was all
> coincidence? i was borned at night, but not last
> nignt.
>
> --- "Kendall D. Corbett" <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > But if some of the CG enlistees were gay or lesbian,
> > how would that be
> > viewed under "don't ask, don't tell," which is newly
> > under fire?
> >
> > On 12/8/07, Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > well, then some would be gay or lesbian, and one
> > would be transexual! lol!
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Deri James <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 3:47:02 AM
> > > Subject: Re: what would you do?
> > >
> > > On Saturday 08 December 2007 02:22:55 Tamar Raine
> > wrote:
> > > > I say let them party! lol! it's only a one hour
> > flight!
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, you're right - but I think the airline would
> > have to set up a rota,
> > > there were 17 females and 25 males!!
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Deri
> > >
> > >
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> > > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2007 10:45:58 AM
> > > > Subject: what would you do?
> > > >
> > > > Fasten Seat Belts
> > > >
> > > > Flying to Los Angeles from San Francisco the
> > other
> > > > day, a passenger noticed that the "Fasten Seat
> > Belts"
> > > > sign was kept lit during the whole journey
> > although
> > > > the flight was a particularly smooth one.
> > > >
> > > > Just before landing, he asked the stewardess
> > about it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Well," she explained, "up front there are 17
> > > > University of California girls going to Los
> > Angeles
> > > > for the weekend.
> > > >
> > > > "In back, there are 25 Coast Guard enlistees.
> > What
> > > > would you do?"
> > > >
> > >
> > > -----------------------
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Kendall
> >
> > An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's
> > redundant!)
> >
> > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
> > unreasonable one
> > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
> > Therefore, all progress
> > depends on the unreasonable man.
> >
> > -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
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>
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>
--
Kendall
An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's redundant!)
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man.
-George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
-----------------------
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