Ken,

I don't think you can separate environmental issues from economics and
that's why the summit in Kyoto was as much about economics as the
environment.

We need to realise that third world countries see industrial nations as
being major polluters because they are the ones who build the factories, and
exhibit conspicuous consumption of the Earth's resources.  And there's a
grain of truth in it.  I don't agree that third world countries pollute more
than industrial countries except in the matter of overpopulation and human
waste products.  We industrialised nations have  more pollutants in toxic
wastes and air quality.

One only need read Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring," and Paul Erlich's "The
Population Bomb" to gain another perspective on these issues.

Kat

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barber, Kenneth L." <[log in to unmask]>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.c-palsy
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....


>   deri, you are very rarely wrong, but, i think that the worst poluters in
> the world are the third world countries. and you are right in one way,
this
> conference as was kyoto is mostly PR or more corectly proproganda.  it is
> billed as environmental, but, they are talking ecconomics. mostly anti
> capitalist ecconmics (i think capitalism has worked better than any other
> ecconomic system).   i think that is why mr bush chose not to attend
either
> and only dispacted someone to represent our interest.
>   i hope that what would be right for us would be right for most of the
> world. that is not always the case. mr bush is not president of the world
he
> is the u.s. leader. you'll have to look to majors to represent england.
> although we have rarely been at odds in the last century.
> cheers my good friend.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deri James
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 8/30/2002 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Can't stand it anymore....
>
> On Friday 30 Aug 2002 2:58 am, Barber, Kenneth L. wrote:
> >  i can't disagree. there will be changes if saddam falls, from us
> > or from within. and i'll say this, noi matter how well intended mr
> > bush might be, the changes may very well be different from what he
> > expects. may be different that what others expect. it will be
> > unpredictable. i want him to be careful what ever he does. i pray
> > that if we do something or refrain from doing something, that it
> > will be right for our country first and then right for the rest of
> > the innocent people of the world.
>
> Ahh, there's the problem, what if he does something he considers right
> for your country, but is most definitely "not right" for the rest of
> the innocent people of the rest of the world. How do you think the
> rest of the world views the fact that Bush can't be bothered to
> attend the current conference in South Africa attempting to improve
> the economic position of the poorest, or that since the last World
> Conference in Kyoto the US is the only major country which has
> actually increased pollution. It is the PR from things like this
> which provides fodder for tomorrows extremists.
>
> > i'll interject here that saddam is a dictator, but, then so are the
> > leaders of most of the mid east countrys including our buddies in
> > the house of Sauld. the common people don't get any of that oil
> > money.
> >
>
> Dictatorship is a very old political system, practically every country
> mentioned in the Bible had one. The problem is not the system, its
> the individual.
>
> "Never touch a man's rum, bum, baccy or politics" - Chief Petty
> Officer Redmond MBE Royal Navy (Retired).
>
> Cheers
>
> Deri