Kendall, you have my permission too...
mike
---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:29:54 -0700
>From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: not what if/ and rate of CP not the same
>To: [log in to unmask]
>
>if you want to use it "with my name" you have
>permission on my part.
>
>--- "Kendall D. Corbett" <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>> With all your permission, (deleting identifiable
>> attribution of
>> course), I'd like to be able to use the "gist" of
>> this discussion in
>> an ethics presentation I'm participating in in a
>> conference next
>> month. It would probably be used to supplement
>> course work in
>> disability studies where an ethical component is
>> included.
>>
>> This gets to the heart of a matter my parents were
>> given a "choice"
>> in when I was an infant. The underlying condition
>> that caused my CP
>> was hydrocephalus, and back in 1960/1961 the success
>> rates of treating
>> hydrocephalus were pretty low. The surgeon that
>> treated me approached
>> my parents and said that they could treat the
>> condition, or "let
>> Nature take it's course," which would have led to my
>> death. Lucky for
>> me (the verdict's still out for the rest of the
>> world), my parents
>> elected to treat the condition. Life may have been
>> easier for my
>> parents had they taken the other road, but it's a
>> decision my dad
>> couldn't make because of the ethical code he
>> subscribes to.
>>
>> The first time I went to a national convention for
>> the association of
>> University Centers I work for, I became acquainted
>> with a woman who
>> has a son with Down Syndrome. She and I had
>> listened to a
>> presentation on "preventing birth defects." The
>> model put forth for
>> prevention was therapeutic abortion, which in her
>> words, "doesn't
>> prevent disability, it prevents my son!" So, for
>> those of you who are
>> offended, or are about to be offended, count me in.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 10:01 AM, ken barber
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > that is where you get to when you consider any
>> life
>> > less than sacred.
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Trisha Cummings <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Kyle,
>> > >
>> > > What I am curious about is when she says they
>> > > saved her baby without
>> > > her knowing - Is she saying - she would have had
>> > > them not save the baby?
>> > > While it is true that CP rates are up because
>> they
>> > > can save babies
>> > > earlier and earlier - it ends up being a moral
>> > > question - Deciding who
>> > > lives and who dies. Unless you are clairvoyant
>> one
>> > > can't predict how the
>> > > child will turn out - I mean Amber was projected
>> to
>> > > be much more
>> > > seriously disabled than she is. One should
>> > > understand from the moment
>> > > one is pregnant that a fat healthy baby may well
>> not
>> > > be the outcome -
>> > > and if you are not able to accept anything but
>> the
>> > > Gerber Baby- you need
>> > > to be neutered. Because you are seriously too
>> stupid
>> > > to have children in
>> > > the first place. Plus then the first time you
>> > > exhibit a defect - they
>> > > should kill you. So anyone with anything other
>> > > perfect health buys the
>> > > farm? Ouch, no Roosevelt - no Hawking.
>> > >
>> > > Trisha - who also thinks she
>> about to
>> > > be offended - very
>> > > offended at that
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Cerebral Palsy List
>> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>> > > Of Cleveland, Kyle E.
>> > > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:53 AM
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Subject: Re: not what if/ and rate of CP not the
>> > > same
>> > >
>> > > Let me get this straight--I want to be
>> absolutely
>> > > sure I understand what
>> > > you're implying here. "Saving" premature babies
>> in
>> > > order to bring them
>> > > into the ranks of the living is problem? So
>> medical
>> > > science should not
>> > > be used to protect and preserve a life if that
>> life
>> > > is too fragile to
>> > > survive without it? =20
>> > >
>> > > I daresay that many of us on this list would not
>> be
>> > > here if that were
>> > > the case. Would it have been better to let us
>> all
>> > > perish because, after
>> > > all, life with a kid with disabilities is going
>> to
>> > > be more difficult
>> > > than raising a healthy child, right?
>> > >
>> > > There are a bunch of us on this list whose
>> parents
>> > > were advised to
>> > > "institutionalize" us as small children because
>> we
>> > > would never walk,
>> > > talk, or have cognitive abilities greater than
>> the
>> > > average grapefruit.
>> > > I think as a group we've disproved that notion.
>> > >
>> > > I think I am about to be offended. I hope you
>> can
>> > > change my mind.
>> > >
>> > > Kyle
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Cerebral Palsy List
>> > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>> > > Of [log in to unmask]
>> > > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 8:21 AM
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Subject: Re: not what if/ and rate of CP not the
>> > > same
>> > >
>> > > First off I was not saying... what if... I
>> mentioned
>> > > the fact that the
>> > > dr's=20
>> > > did not tell me they were saving my child. I
>> was
>> > > mention the stem cell
>> > > thing=20
>> > > so if any of you had saved your cord blood you
>> may
>> > > want to check into
>> > > it. I=20
>> > > think all they did was give him his blood back
>> but
>> > > it did not say... so
>> > > you=20
>> > > would have to look into it.
>> > > =20
>> > > As to the rates of CP.... they were the 1 birth
>> > > problem that was way
>> > > down=20
>> > > 'UNTIL' 20 or 30 years ago when doctor started
>> > > 'saving' and
>> > > experimenting and=20
>> > > making millions of preemies and their families.
>> The
>> > > rate were down
>> > > because of=20
>> > > better prenatal care but then when they started
>> > > adding the smaller and
>> > > smaller=20
>> > > babies back to the living the rates of CP when
>> right
>> > > back up.
>> > > =20
>> > > Just a thought-
>> > > Kristina
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms,
>> and
>> > > advice on AOL Money
>> > > &=20
>> > > Finance.
>> > >
>> >
>>
>(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=3Daolprf00030000000001)
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
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