I can tell you're on the i phone cool aid.  There is more than way to 
make something accessible.  If we follow your logic, then rt systems 
software is accessible because it sort of works with n v d a.  No need 
too improve it and make it work with jaws or window-eyes.  And, I'm not 
just talking about phones, touch screens and displays on appliances, 
stereo receivers and so forth.  Yes Apple has done a great job building 
in the voice, but in your own way, you are calling me an ass hole 
because I think we should have other choices for accessibility.  The 
jestures just aren't natural to me just as cw waz never fun for me.  So 
If I follow your logic, I should not use ssb because you and others use 
cw.  Just because it is natural for you doesn't mean it is for all of us 
or that that should be the only solution.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Sun, 11 Jan 2015, Colin 
McDonald wrote:

> did someone say you are retarded for not wanting to use an IPhone or touch
> screen?  If so then they are an asshole.
> If it don't float your boat, then don't use it.  But don't turn around and
> complain about how access is not being built into new devices and
> technologies when it can so easily be intigrated.  Apple has done this, and
> done a fantastic job of it too.
> So, what you call for and suggest should be done, has been done, and then
> you refuse to use it because the interface is not comfortable for you.  Like
> I said, if you don't like the touch screen no one is forcing you to use it.
> But, at least one forward thinking company has made a serious effort to
> develop something integral to the device which allows nearly full access to
> everything the device can do...and it's right there to be used...your wish
> has been granted at least in some small way
> And, apple, by example, is leading the charge...I'm starting to sound like
> an apple convert which I'm not.  I don't like the way the products are
> designed or the way the user is directed and limited as to what they can do
> on the device...there are many things I dislike, but the one thing I do like
> is the fact that I can get a top of the line brand new piece of technology
> which is fully accessible and instantly usable out of the box without having
> to program, or buy additional software to gain access.
> Everyone has a choice as to what they want to use.  But complaining about
> the lack of access in new technologies, and then saying you won't use what
> is out there and available seems a bit ironic to me.
> The IPhone itself has given access to many previously unaccessible pieces of
> technology through app control and wireless connectivity...I predict that
> within the next 5 years, every piece of electronics will have android and
> IPhone app support to control it...essentially making everything accessible.
> Washers and dryers, fridges, stoves, microwaves, tv's, house hold lighting
> and heat/air conditioning will all have intigrated wireless control via
> mobile device...many of these already do, though the price point is still
> higher than average.
> You would be amazed at what is out there now that has wireless
> access...coffee makers, meat smokers, home stereos, cooking and medical
> thermometers, thermostats, microwaves, ovens, washers and dryers...the list
> goes on and on and on as to what you can buy and download an app and control
> with your phone...and most of those apps are accessible.  It's way way
> beyond the geeky half assed computer control systems of 10 years ago and
> more where you could control your heating, lighting and a few other things
> via your PC with some expensive control hardware and software.
> So you can say it's not for everyone, you can say your not comfortable with
> the interface and that others shouldn't try to convince you otherwise, but
> where are you going to be in 5 years when access is sitting right there, and
> you don't have it because you don't want to use a touch screen?  The horse
> and buggy senario is apt here.  When other blind people who took the plunge
> and learned to be  comfortable with the new interface are comfortably
> accessing all this stuff in the next few years, are you still going to be
> complaining that access is not being put into devices?  The old way of
> thinking, where we wish to have things talk to us directly or beep or
> whatever to give some kind of feedback is not realistic anymore.  We can
> gain access in this new way though via a device like an IPhone, IPad, IPod
> or android/windows  device instead and it's smart to learn to use it now
> rather than later.
> Bluetooth keyboards are becoming popular even amongst sited users to type on
> their touch screen devices...I also predict that apple will release a device
> with a full QWERTY style keyboard within the next few years as
> well...essentially blowing away any complaints about the tediousness of
> learning how to use a touch screen as a blind person.  yeah, it's not easy,
> and it can be frustrating when coming directly from something with buttons
> on it, but it's not impossible and it can only help not hinder access.  The
> tactile screen protecters from speed dots are invaluable for new users of an
> IPhone who are switching from button phones.  It gives you a tactile point
> of reference, like a button, and allows you to more easily learn to use the
> device...and if you leave it on then fine no one cares.
> Get too far behind the curve though and it'll only be harder to catch up
> later on.  There is a logic to all of this and if you can see yourself past
> the initial difficulties, the logic will pervaille.
> This is not a passing fad, or a simple fashion accessory or the new fangled
> toy of the day...it's way way more than that.  And, we as blind consumers
> and those who desire greater access are right in the thick of it.  It's a
> golden age of access rather than inaccess.
>
> 73
> Colin, V A6BKX
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Butch Bussen
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 9:03 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: scanners?
>
> What you and many other blind people don't realizde is that the touch
> screen isn't the answer for us all.  You may love it and be very good at
> it, but that does not mean it is great for all of us.  It has always
> amazed me, and I see this particularly among the blind, something like,
> if I love it and use it and I think it is the best thing in the world,
> everyone else should think so and if we don't we're some how retarted.
> I'm just not comfortable with touch screens, give me a key board or
> buttons.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Sat, 10 Jan 2015, Colin McDonald wrote:
>
>> well, I ain't going to change your mind, I've learne that after 10 years,
>> but the touch screen is allot easier and more user friendly than you might
>> think on the IPhone.
>> Especially if you use a tactile screen protecter for the first while to
>> help
>> you get used to the screen spacing.
>> It really depends on what you use your phone for and how much mobile
>> connectivity you need.  It took me a long time to give up my nokia's with
>> talks, but once I made the decision to accept the IPhone, it didn't take
>> long to get used to the touch screen interface and become very quick and
>> efficient with it...using things like Siri, dictate and so on the device
>> becomes exceedingly powerful.  It has it's faults and cons, but every
>> smart
>> phone does regardless of touch screen or buttons.  I think the upside far
>> out weighs any downside or faults the phone may have including the
>> learning
>> curve on the touch screen interface.
>> Believe me, I was firmly placed in the anti-IPhone camp as well a couple
>> years ago...then I made a mental decision to just do it because that is
>> where the accessibility is, and once I did it was allot more pleasant than
>> I
>> thought it would be.
>>
>> 73
>> Colin, V A6BKX
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Miller
>> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 7:09 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: scanners?
>>
>> Touch screens are still something I hate. Not saying they're unusable by
>> us
>> but I can't get the hang of the one on my android phone and I've had it
>> over
>> a year. I hope to avoid them on anything else as long as I possibly can.
>> I'd
>> never spend the money for an Iphone, I don't like mac anyway but the touch
>> screen is a major nonselling point to me.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Butch Bussen" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 8:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: scanners?
>>
>>
>>> Yep, I agree totally.  Sad part is I think we're losing access these days
>>> when the technology is there to help if they would just use it.  I'm
>>> talking everything from internet pages to new appliances with touch
>>> screens.  And of course there are those who think just because they can
>>> use and love their i phones, that an i phone is the solution for
>>> everyone.
>>> grrrrrrr.
>>> 73
>>> Butch
>>> WA0VJR
>>> Node 3148
>>> Wallace, ks.
>>
>>
>
>