Yep, but you aand I are not the list owners and as we're proving, you 
message just causes more messages about the same problem.  And other 
topics have always been discussed on this list.  I'm done with this. 
Stupid hs nothing to do with it.
73
Butch
WA0VJR
Node 3148
Wallace, ks.


On Wed, 11 Jan 2017, Robert Ringwald 
wrote:

> Dear Butch,
>
> Me leaving the entire message on the bottom of my complaint defeats nothing.
> I left it there in case someone didn't read the first message, they could
> read
> it and understand what I was complaining about.
>
> I know you are not stupid. So please think about it. Posting an email about
> silencers for guns on a ham email list makes about as much sense as posting
> a message about a Kenwood 590's keying characteristics on a nRA or political
> site. Regardless of what you say, it is off-topic and defeats the purpose of
> having a topic-specific email list.
>
>  If you are the owner of this email list and condone these types of posts,
> then as I said, I am out of here.
>
> If you are not the owner, then why try to defend an indefencable position?
>
> You say to use my delete key. I have recently joined this email list and the
> other more active blind ham list. I've had to use my delete key already
> hundreds of times on non-specific ham related posts.
>
> Now that the GW micro List is apparently not monitored by the new owners,
> the garbage is piling up on that email list also.
>
> I moderate an email list of aprox 600 members. I have no problem gently and
> politely keeping the list on-topic.
>
> But having to put up with this garbage and then having you  actually
> condoning it is just too much.
>
> I have two businesses and am much too busy to sit here and delete off-topic
> messages all day.
>
> 73 - Bob Ringwald K6YBV
>
> Note on Feb 15 I will celebrate my 60 years of having a ham license
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Butch Bussen
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 6:09 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Trump Administration May Make Silencers More Available
>
> It belongs jusst as much as your complaint or my response, and then you
> quote the entire message which kindof defeats your complaint.  For
> heaven sake, just hit the delete key.
> 73
> Butch
> WA0VJR
> Node 3148
> Wallace, ks.
>
>
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2017, Robert Ringwald
> wrote:
>
>> I am not the keeper of this List. However, I will state my personal view
>> on
>> this post.
>>
>> It does not belong on a Ham radio forum.
>>
>> I didn't join this list to be preached at about political subjects, gun
>> control, silencers or anything else not related to ham radio.
>>
>> If this sort of discussion persists on this list, I will be out of here.
>>
>> -Bob Ringwald K6YBV
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:40 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Trump Administration May Make Silencers More Available
>>
>> BlankThis isn't ham radio related, except you'll see who the inventor of
>> the
>> gun
>> silencer was, something I didn't realize.
>>
>> Steve K8SP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Trump Administration May Make Silencers More Available
>>
>>
>>
>> The federal government has strictly limited the sale of firearm silencers
>> for as
>> long as James Bond and big-screen gangsters have used them to discreetly
>> shoot
>> enemies between the eyes.  Silencers, currently subject to taxes and wait
>> periods, could become a mass-market option for gun enthusiasts if the
>> unified
>> Republican government pushes for deregulation.
>>
>> Now the gun industry, which for decades has complained about the
>> restrictions,
>> is pursuing new legislation to make silencers
>> easier to buy, and a key backer is Donald Trump Jr., an avid hunter and
>> the
>> oldest son of the president-elect, who campaigned as a friend of the gun
>> industry.
>>
>>
>> The legislation stalled in Congress last year. But with Republicans in
>> charge of
>> the House and Senate and the elder Trump moving into the White House, gun
>> rights
>> advocates are excited about its prospects this year. They hope to position
>> the
>> bill the same way this time not as a Second Amendment issue, but as a
>> public-health effort to safeguard the eardrums of the nation's 55 million
>> gun
>> owners. They even named it the Hearing Protection Act. It would end
>> treating
>> silencers as the same category as machine guns and grenades, thus
>> eliminating a
>> $200 tax and a nine-month approval process.
>>
>> "It's about safety," Trump Jr. explained in a September video interview
>> with
>> the
>> founder of SilencerCo, a Utah silencer manufacturer. "It's a health issue,
>> frankly.
>>
>> Violence prevention advocates are outraged that the industry is trying to
>> ease
>> silencer restrictions by linking the issue to the eardrums of gun owners.
>> They
>> argue the legislation will make it easier for criminals and potential mass
>> shooters to obtain devices to conceal attacks.
>>
>> "They want the general public to think it's about hearing aids or
>> something,"
>> said Kristen Rand, the legislative director of the Violence Policy Center.
>> "It's
>> both a silly and smart way to do it, I guess. But when the general public
>> finds
>> out what's really happening, there will be outrage."
>>
>> The silencer industry and gun rights groups say critics are vastly
>> overstating
>> the dangers, arguing that Hollywood has created an unrealistic image of
>> silencers, which they prefer to call "suppressors. They cite studies
>> showing
>> that silencers reduce the decibel level of a gunshot from a dangerous 165
>> to
>> about 135 the sound of a jackhammer and that they are rarely used in
>> crimes.
>>
>> But gun-control activists say silencers are getting quieter, particularly
>> in
>> combination with subsonic ammunition, which is less
>> lethal but still damaging. They point to videos on YouTube in which
>> silencers
>> make high-powered rifles have "no more sound than a pellet gun," according
>> to
>> one demonstrator showing off a silenced semiautomatic .22LR.
>>
>> Proponents say that's not a good way to judge the sound. "You're still
>> going
>> to
>> hear the gunfire from far away," said Knox Williams, president of the
>> American
>> Suppressor Association. "These things are still incredibly loud. Even with
>> the
>> restrictions, silencers have become one of the fastest-growing segments of
>> the
>> gun industry, which pushed accessories as gun sales level off. In 2010,
>> there
>> were 285,087 registered silencers. Last year: 902,085.
>>
>> Rep. Matt Salmon, an Arizona Republican who regularly shoots with
>> silencers,
>> introduced the Hearing Protection Act in the House in 2015. A companion
>> bill
>> in
>> the Senate was championed by Sen. Mike Crapo, R-Idaho. Though the bill
>> never
>> made it to committee hearings, it generated tremendous interest, becoming
>> the
>> third-most-viewed piece of legislation on Congress' website last year.
>> (Top
>> was
>> the Democrat-led Assault Weapons Ban of 2015.)
>>
>> Salmon recently retired, and it's not clear yet who will reintroduce the
>> measure. The bill had 82 co-sponsors -- all but two of them Republicans.
>> Easing
>> the restrictions could have a profound public-health impact, champions of
>> the
>> legislation say. Hunters often shoot without hearing protection so they
>> can
>> hear
>> prey moving. Many recreational shooters don't like wearing ear covers,
>> which
>> can
>> be heavy and hot and in gun ranges lead to many conversations ending with,
>> "I
>> can't hear you.
>>
>> Silencers are also marketed as must-have attachments for high-powered
>> rifles --
>> a tactical necessity that
>> reduces recoil, thus improving aim. "Quiet guns are easier to shoot," the
>> National Rifle Association says in its American Rifleman magazine. "Try
>> it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Stigma
>>
>> Silencers were invented in 1908 by Hiram Percy Maxim, a graduate of MIT
>> whose
>> father invented the first fully automatic machine gun. The younger Maxim
>> had
>> a
>> knack for reducing loud noises; he also contributed to the development of
>> the
>> automobile muffler.
>>
>> "I have always loved to shoot, but I never thoroughly enjoyed it when I
>> knew
>> that the noise was annoying other people," he said late in life. "It
>> occurred to
>> me one day that there was no need for the noise. Why not do away with it
>> and
>> shoot quietly?"
>>
>> Maxim solved the problem in the bathtub. He noticed that the water swirled
>> silently down the drain. What if the gases produced from firing a bullet
>> could
>> swirl that way, too?
>>
>> So Maxim put what he called "a whirling tube" on the end of a rifle. It
>> successfully muffled the sound of the gunfire. Soon, the whirling tube was
>> U.S.
>> Patent No. 958,935, titled "Silent Firearm.
>>
>> In the 1930s, to curtail gang violence, Congress passed the National
>> Firearms
>> Act, putting restrictions and special taxes on machine guns and other
>> high-powered weapons.
>>
>> Though they hadn't been used frequently in crimes, silencers were included
>> anyway, reportedly out of concern that poachers would use them to steal
>> food
>> during the Great Depression.
>>
>> "It's a very strange tale," said Stephen Halbrook, a Virginia gun rights
>> attorney who recently published a law review article about the history of
>> silencers.  "If you think about it, if (the Occupational Safety and Health
>> Administration) had been around then, they probably would have required
>> people
>> use these things."
>>
>> Though silencers are now legal in 42 states, industry officials say the
>> onerous
>> and expensive task of buying them keeps gun owners, particularly hunters,
>> from
>> their preferred method of protecting their hearing. They frequently point
>> out
>> that Britain, with some of the strictest gun laws in the world, has no
>> restrictions on silencers for many types of firearms.
>>
>> "There isn't this negative stigma because of Hollywood that has suppressed
>> pun
>> intended the
>> use of suppressors in this country," said Josh Waldron, the founder of
>> SilencerCo, the Utah manufacturer.
>>
>> Waldron started his company in 2008 after a career in photography, aiming
>> to
>> educate shooters about the benefits of silencers and to essentially hold
>> buyers'
>> hands through the purchasing process. He sells about 18,000 silencers a
>> month.
>>
>> "I want to create an environment where people understand the real purpose
>> of
>> these devices and that people aren't using
>> them for nefarious acts," he said.
>>
>> Criminals and silencers
>>
>> Silencer use in crimes is likely to be the focus of the legislative debate
>> later
>> this year.  Gun rights proponents and the silencer industry cite a study
>> showing
>> that in California, from 1995 to 2005, silencers appeared to be used for
>> criminal purposes only 153 times in federal cases.
>>
>> "Suppressed firearms are clearly not the choice of criminals," according
>> to
>> a
>> briefing paper by the National
>> Shooting Sports Foundation, which is based in Newtown, Connecticut, and
>> represents gun manufacturers. "The fears and concerns about suppressor
>> ownership
>> and use are unfounded and have not been seen in the over 100-year history
>> of
>> suppressors."
>>
>> Gun-control advocates contend that serious crimes are being committed with
>> silencers on guns. Former police officer Christopher Dorner used silencers
>> on an
>> AR-15 and a 9mm handgun during two-day rampage in Los Angeles in 2013. A
>> serial
>> killer in Vermont used a silencer in the killing of at least one of his 11
>> victims. And the planner of a disrupted mass shooting targeting a Masonic
>> temple
>> in Milwaukee last year was charged with possessing a silencer, in addition
>> to
>> other weapons charges.
>>
>> "They wanted these things so they could kill quietly," said Rand, of the
>> Violence Policy Center. "The industry wants to make silencers less scary,
>> but
>> they can't."
>>
>> Gun owners such as Trump Jr. can't understand why people like Rand don't
>> get
>> it.
>> In the video, after he's shown shooting several guns with silencers, Trump
>> Jr.
>> says they can help with getting "little kids into the game. "It's just a
>> great
>> instrument," he says. "There's nothing bad about it at all."
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2016.0.7996 / Virus Database: 4749/13746 - Release Date: 01/11/17
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2016.0.7996 / Virus Database: 4749/13750 - Release Date: 01/11/17
>
>