At 08:40 28/02/1999 -1000, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 2/27/99 5:18:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>>[log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>I think some of the problem with some of the human reaction to killing may
>be a bit nuerotic in nature.
axel:
for some really weird reason, many, many people do not "feel" like killing
animals, or that killing is ok. now of course you can say it is for this or
that, but who knows. we can make really interesting theories for ever. some
people feel they have a spiritual part. also an emotional being or body. on
many levels it makes a lot of sense NOT to kill sentient, intelligent beings
that are SO similar to us in many ways. on another levels, like health, it
might make sense to eat animal products. but that is all there is about it.
i do not buy any hunter instinct stuff. i know this list is about food
specially, but still i feel like sharing how i see things. lately i am
starting to sense that there has to be a way to be vegan and really healthy
in this world. there has to be a way to work it out. i mean, it makes sense
at ALL levels except that some people need animal products for their health!
this is something.
> This maternal
>instinct can be generalized to a degree, but only a minority of humans seem
>to take it to the extreme of "all life should never be killed by me" and
>then further generalize that to "all life should never be killed by anyone"
>and further to "I am more advanced because I would never kill".
not wanting to kill sentient beings is a "maternal instinct"?
it might be for some, but you can not apply it to all people that refrain
from killing animals or not participating indirectly in such killing thru
buying animal products.
why so many people find horrible the killing of animals? are some of them,
as you say, "a bit neurotic"? give me a break!
neurotic for not killing animals? come on! it is absolutely HORRIBLE, IMHO,
to KILL an animal! have you done it, kirt? how many people that defend
animal products on any level can actually go and kill animals? not many,
right? i know, i know, this is said again and again, some might say "vegan
brainwhasing", etc.
>The trouble is, at least for humans, is that we are sculpted by evolution
>to be omnivores and, in general, suffer without animal foods.
this seems to be the case, but it does not make sense on all the other levels.
a part of me just do not accept that god, because i do believe in god, can
create this conflict between many people´s ethics and their biological
needs. it does not make sense.
also, are you all in this mailing list so scientific? is science the best
way to find truth for you?
>Further, humans probably have evolved a degree of sex specialization (male
>hunter; female gatherer--certainly not a strict thing but as a
>generalization it is probably true enough). With food sharing, it becomes
>even more complicated. Females eat animal foods but need not hunt them.
>Further, females probably have a heavier dose of maternal instinct than men
>(in general).
>
>And even further, the human brain can abstract in any direction. So that,
>maternal feelings can be codified into rules of conduct which apply to--not
>only one's own offspring and those of one's "tribe"--all mammals,
IMHO, being disgusted with the idea of killing animals, or watching an
animal being killed for human consumption, or not wanting to kill animals
yourself, is not a maternal instinct codified into a rule of conduct. it can
also be seen as a natural spiritual emotional part of many human beings that
intuitively do NOT like killing AT ALL.
>flavors of "killing is bad" fundamentalism.
it might not be in your ethics, but is not necesarily fundamentalism. it is
a very valid and real posture that many human beings share.
>Saying we shouldn't kill for food, is to my mind, just as perverted as
>saying we _should_ kill our kids. Both are extreme distortions of our
>nature IMO.
you mean our physical nature. our nature is not only our body. there might
be a way to be well without animal products. maybe highly mineralized
vegetable food, lots of sunshine and living outside and doing lots of
exercise? it could be.
Calling either a process of refining or perfecting evolution,
>or an experiment in high morality and spirituality just makes it more
>perverted IMO.
please clarify. one thing is that you do not think that veganism is
appropiate for health reasons, but another thing is that it is perverted.
why is it perverted?
>There will always be those who respond with the "but wouldn't it be nice if
>we could see all of life as our family?" The question makes about as much
>sense to me as "but wouldn't it be nice if we could kill every living thing
>on the planet?"
i really do not know if you are serious or just kidding. it sounds like you
do not take seriously people´s desire for a more peaceful and harmonic
world. is this the case? do you have dreams for a better world, with less
violence and cruelty?
honestly, it sounds like you are making fun of this. respecting other
beings, not hurting other beings, not causing suffering to beings with
capacity to feel just like you is not a stupid nonsense, you know?
also, just curious, what are your ethics? what things do you think are good
and bad? do you think the world can change for the better? if so, how?
axel
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