On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Wade Reeser wrote:
> People really should take a look at the study for themselves. Though
> I believe few would argue that a negative calcium balance is not a good
> thing, the scientist that published the paper say, "No evidence was
> obtained whcih indicated that the loss of calcium from the body was in
> any way serious." In fact, roentgenograms of the hands showed no
> differences with respect others not on the diet and showed no
> "rarefication." They suggest that the loss of calcium may not have
> continued when they ate the meat from the bone. In any event, the
> negative result for bone loss seems more persuasive than the methods
> for determining calcium balance. As was true for years in estimating
> nitrogen balance, the methods of estimating calcium balance at that
> time may be in error.
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure how much bone loss would be
expected after a year.
> The three or four papers that I have read from these papers conclude that
> the men were no worse for wear and remained in excellent health. They
> did record the high cholesterol, calcium balance, and other slight anomolies
> that they considered of little consequence. You seem to be particularly
> "cholestrophobic" and this seems to color your reading of the studies.
Let me make it as clear as possible. I do not assert that I have
knowledge that this kind of diet is harmful or dangerous. I do
assert that these studies give some reason to be cautious. I am
not claiming that Stefansson and Andersen were made sick by their
diet, or that no one else should try this kind of diet. I do
claim, however, that the best course is to be aware of the risks,
which include elevated cholesterol and calcium loss. I think it
is irresponsible for Ray and Troy not to have put some of this
information in their book, and I sincerely hope that the new
edition will give a more balanced view.
What you are calling "cholestrophobia" is merely the consequence
of my having it brought home to me in a dramatic way that things
don't necessarily work the way the authors of Neanderthin
represent them.
> People must be critical and scrutinize the papers that support or attack
> their hypotheses. You would do well to understand the science behind
> some of the conclusions that you often report out of context or without
> various caveats.
I'll accept that criticism as it stands and argue that it applies
as well to Ray and Troy. Note that Loren Cordain expressed
exactly the same concerns after reviewing the literature on the
Bellevue experiment. In fact, it was from his message that I got
the list of references and was able to look up some of this
stuff. I doubt that his problem is a failure to understand the
science behind this stuff. I guess he is as qualified as anyone
on the planet to make the comments, which I attach below.
Todd Moody
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:38:50 -0600
From: Loren Cordain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stefansson's all meat diet
The following list of citations represents all of the scientific
publications which occurred as a result of Vilhjalmur Stefansson's
famous "Year Long, All Meat Diet" Experiment which was conducted at
Bellvue Hospital in New York starting in January of 1928. Stefansson's
diet consisted entirely of animal based food with no plant foods and
contained a fat:protein energy ratio of 20% protein and 80% fat. During
the year long experiment, Stefansson's serum cholesterol levels ranged
from 212 mg/dl to 315mg/dl (14) with a mean value of 269 mg/dl (14).
Additionally, the all meat diet caused a persistent hypercalciuria and
Stefansson was in negative calcium balance for the entire year of the
experiment (10).
Although Stefansson followed a similar all meat diet when he
lived with Eskimo people on his expeditions to the far North, I suspect
that there were key differences in the manner in which the aboriginal
Eskimo all meat diet differed from Stefansson's "civilized" all meat
diet. The storage fat in marine mammals (whales, seals, walrus etc)
contains much higher levels of monounsaturated fat and less saturated
fat (16) than does the storage fat of commercial meats. Additionally,
the muscle tissue of caribou, moose and other ungulates of the far north
contain much lower levels of saturated fat than does domestic meat.
Marrow and organ meats were consumed regularly in the aboriginal eskimo
diet, whereas Stefansson's dietary staples were mainly fatty meats.
Marrow contains approximately 75% of its total lipids as monounsaturated
fats, and organ meats from wild animals contain lipid profiles which
tend to be non-atherogenic because of their high levels of both N6 and
N3 polyunsaturates (17). Further, the dietary protein intake of
eskimos has been reported to range from 27-45% of their total energy
(16,18), and because protein is more effective in lowering serum
cholesterol levels than is carbohydrate (19), Stefansson's lower protein
intake (20%energy) relative to aboriginal intakes may have contributed
to the hypercholesterolemia produced by his "civilized all meat diet".
Finally, fish played an important role in the Eskimo diet, and fish
consumption is known to have a beneficial influence upon cardiovascular
health (20). It is not known how much fish Stefansson included in his
"all meat" civilized diet.
These points underscore the difficulty in trying to emulate so
called "paleodiets" with modern foods.
STEFANSSON REFERENCES:
1. Lieb CW. The effects of an exclusive long-continued meat diet.
JAMA 1926;87:25-26.
2. Lieb CW. The effects on human beings of a twelve months
exclusive meat diet. JAMA 1929;93:20-22.
3. Lieb CW, Tolstoi E. Effect of an exclusive meat diet on
chemical constituents of the blood. Proc Soc Exp Biol Med
1929;26:324-25.
4. Lieb CW. A years's exclusive meat diet and seven years later. Am
J Digestive Dis Nutr 1935;2:473-75.
5. Lieb CW. Statement. Am J Digestive Dis Nutr 1936;2:732.
6. McClellan WS, Toscani V. Changes in the rate of excretion of
acetone bodies during the twenty-four hours. J Biol Chem 1928;80:653-58.
7. McClellan WS, Spencer HJ, Falk EA, DuBois EF. A comparison of
the thresholds of ketosis in diabetes, epilepsy, and obesity. J Biol
Chem 1928;80:639-
8. McClellan WS. Der einfluss einer einhahrigen ausschliesslichen
fleischkost bei zwei menschen. Klin. Woch. 1930;9:931-32.
9. McClellan WS, DuBois EF. Prolonged meat diets with a study of
kidney function and ketosis. J Biol Chem 1930;87:651-80.
10. McClellan WS, Rupp VR, Toscani V. Prolonged meat diets with a
study of the metabolism of nitrogen, calcium and phosphorous. J Biol
Chem 1930;87:669-80
11. McClellan WS. The effect of the prolonged use of exclusive meat
diets on two men. J Am Diet Assoc 1930;6:216-28.
12. McClellan WS, Spencer HJ, Falk EA. Prolonged meat diets with a
study of the respiratory metabolism. J Biol Chem 1931;93:419-34.
13. Tolstoi E. The effects of an exclusive meat diet lasting one
year on the carbohydrate tolerance of two normal men. J Biol Chem
1929;83:747-52.
14. Tolstoi E.The effect of an exclusive meat diet on the chemical
constituents of the blood. J Biol Chem 1929;83:753-58.
15. Torrey JC, Montu E. The influence of an exclusive meat diet on
the flora of the human colon. J Infect Dis 1931;49:141-76.
NON-STEFANSSON REFERENCES
16. Bang HO, Dyerberg J. Lipid metabolism and ischemic heart
disease in Greenland Eskimos. Adv Nutr Res 1980;3:1-22.
17. Cordain L, Martin C, Florant G, Watkins BA. (1998). The fatty
acid composition of muscle, brain, marrow and adipose tissue in elk:
evolutionary implications for human dietary lipid requirements. The
World Review of Nutrition and Dietetics, 83: 225.
18. Krogh A, Krogh M. A Study of the Diet and Metabolism of
Eskimos. Bianco Luno, Copenhagen, 1913.
19. Wolfe BM. Potential role of raising dietary protein intake for
reducing risk of atherosclerosis. Can J Cardiol 1995;11:127G-31G.
20. Wolmarans P et al. Plasma lipoprotein response to substituting
fish for red meat in the diet. Am J Clin Nutr 1991;53:1171-6.
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