At 06:09 AM 9/3/98 -0400, you wrote:
>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:03:32 -0400, Ilya <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>>You were making two points - that vitamin C must have ALWAYS
>>been plentiful simply because it is a vitamin and without it we would die.
>Ilya, please don't feel attacked in your statements,
>I just want to remain pragmatic.
>Ok, the vitamin-dependency developed in a long time when the vitamin
>must have been plentiful, and - for shure - there was never a time
>when it was absent or under a minimum. Satisfied?

I think the objection is with "must have been plentiful"  I don't think
that because
we don't synthesize vit C that the vitamin must have been in abundance.
A purely animal flesh diet provides all the necessary vitamins and minerals
for
a long and healthy life.  Period.  All the plants, fruits, and nuts are not
necessary for a long and healthy life.

>I'd say important for us is - to find out more about
>the diet we evolved for, isn't it? (not about rats or one-cellars)

Alot of research suggests that it was meat-eating that enabled homo sapiens to
develop such large brains and so consider such questions.  (expensive
tissue hypoth.)
Certainly, it has been abundantly shown that humans and their ancestors have
been eating alot of meat for a long time.

>If we speak about vitamins, they can give us strong hints which
>food items had *actually* been
>our anchestral food.
>So much, that body our chemistry afforded the luxury to develope
>a total dependency on it - thats the definition of a vitamin.
>And that's a real strong point a dependency without an advantage.
>As you list, only primates and gunea pigs have it with vitamin-C.
>
>IMO vitamin-c dependency points very much towards a nutrition with
>very much fresh vegetables and fruit or whereever it is contained plentiful.
>Because we are discussing the food we evolved for, not the food we
>could only cope with in unsatisfying circumstances.
>Vitamin-dependencies are food adaptions.
>
>The vitamin-B1 dependency for example is very much stronger,
>since the body-storages of B1 are listed to last only for some weeks.
>If you list then vitamin-b1 containing food items available in
>paleolithic times, you'll find: several seeds and nuts or mushrooms
>(pine, sesame).
>Besides that: grains and pigs which are not consi
>dered paleo by most.
>
>IMO vitamin-b1 dependency points towards a constant nutrition with
>nuts and seeds in our food adaption time.

Animal flesh supplies all the B1 you could ever want and doesn't rely on
seasonal availability.

I think you are really missing the boat on this.  What problems do you have
with
the consumption of meat?

>B1 is the think-vitamin.
>Is THAT the grain-farmers advantage? superious b1-supply?
>
>regards
>
>Amadeus


    Wade Reeser   [log in to unmask]