Marques, Jorge writes:
> But when people like Michael choose to openly disagree with their
> government, i.e., when they choose to be participants rather than
> spectators, you characterize that as "pissing and moaning" and "tacit
> approval". And yet you continually refer to Chomsky's critiques of the
> system as excuses for inaction: that's the way the system is and it just
> simply can't and won't be changed.
>
>  That is such a fundamental misreading of Chomsky that I almost
> can't believe it's accidental.

There is a fundamental misreading (misunderstanding) here, but I think
it is yours and Michael's, not mine.  I said:

Martin:
  Piss and moan about the government you elected.

Michael:
        I didn't elect them.

Martin:
  Piss and moan about the system you tacitly approve.

Michael:
        Your argument that protesting against the system is tacitily
        approving of it is Orwellian in it's ridiculousness.

Both of you think that when I refer to the system I am referring to
that which you oppose.  I am not referring to that which you oppose.
I am referring to the system that includes both that which you oppose
and that which you advocate.  It is that system that you will not
change, if and when you win.  It is that system you tacitly approve by
acting within it.  I'm sorry I didn't explain that.

> In fact, Chomsky often talks about how to change the system and uses
> the example provided rural workers in Brazil:

Chomsky is talking about changing that which you oppose.  It is that
effort I was talking about when I said I don't want to do it; I will
send money to organizations that do it, but I don't want to spend my
life doing that kind of work.

The reason I don't want to do that kind of work is that I don't see it
as a solution.  It isn't a solution because it doesn't change the
system that generated the problem in the first place.  The sytem that
generated the situation in Yugoslavia is not the system of that which
you oppose.  The system that generated the situation in Yugoslavia is
the system that includes both that which you oppose and that which you
advocate.  You won't solve the problem that generates situations like
the one in Yugoslavia unless you change the system that generates
those situations, and you won't change that system by promoting peace
because that system includes the promotion of peace.  Of course you
won't change that system by promoting war either, but I never said the
NATO action was about changing the system.

martin

Martin Smith                    Email: [log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 1034 Bekkajordet       Tel. : +47 330 35700
N-3194 HORTEN, Norway           Fax. : +47 330 35701