Irene:
>> were NO raw vegan cultures at all.

Alan:
>This is an unproven statement so one should keep an open mind
>here. What we certainly do know is that one can both survive
>and thrive on a non-meat diet.

Tom:
Strictly speaking, you are correct, though that does not support the views
you espouse (100% raw vegan).

More accurate:
There are no KNOWN raw vegan (or cooked vegan) cultures in history, and no
evidence of same in prehistory.

Irene's statement is a negative, which is impossible to prove. It is also
true that some people can and do thrive on vegan diets (usually less than
100% raw).

For illustration, here's another unproven statement that is often presented
as "fact" by raw vegan advocates:

"Anyone can thrive on 100% raw vegan, if they only: eat super-high
quality food, take care of a long list of trivial details, survive
intermittent "detox" episodes, get coching from a raw vegan "diet guru",
have a positive attitude, etc."

The anecdotal evidence is that the above statement, the core philosophy of
many raw vegan advocates, is false. The failure rate of 100% raw vegans,
long-term, is very high. As mentioned in previous posts, at least some
of the claims of success are dubious and lack credibility.

A few extra comments on the claims in the statement above:

* quality - those who cling to this excuse will tell you that the food
you get is literally never good enough. This renders its use as an excuse
for the failure of raw vegan, logically invalid.

* detox - favorite excuse of the raw vegan diet gurus, and unfalsifiable.
The honest use a different word to describe "detox" episodes: the word
is "illness".

* diet gurus - many are known fakes, and/or lack credibility. Your diet guru
may promote 100% raw vegan while binge-eating cooked and/or dairy, in
private.

I will close by mentioning that some folks do well, long-term, on high
percentage raw diets. Typically the ones with credibility are less than
100% raw, and/or are non-vegan.

Tom Billings