Hi Alan,

I should say at the outset that when I use all caps, I don't mean it
to be yelling, as some people do.  It's just my way of adding emphasis
in the limited world of my email program. :)

> > Good point.  All the German I know is... well... I shouldn't even try,
> > since I don't know how to spell it. :D
> >
> How about "Kindergarten" (nursery) and "Gesundheit" (health)?

I was thinking more along the lines of the few German sentences I
learned from high school gummi bear sellers (back in the dark ages,
before Haribo was available in stores here) and from the Beatles. :D

> > I'll try, but it's hard to know the age of the nuts you're getting
> > unless you get them directly from the tree or the grower.  Neither of
> > those options is available to me at the present.  But I'll keep it in
> > mind...
> >
> Ripe nuts which are stored (and not...god forbid..irradiated) sooner or
> later go rancid (the very oily ones faster than the less oily ones) and
> are eventually consumed by fungi. They do not go into any form of
> "suspended animation" Carol.

I don't see much connection between the two above paragraphs, but I'll
reply to the second anyway.  Nuts absolutely do go into suspended ani-
mation if they have to wait out a time lag between separation from the
parent plant and germination.  It's either suspended animation or they
die and then magically come back to life. :D

> > > > My understanding is that the enzyme inhibitors are there to keep the
> > > > nut/seed in a state of suspended animation, not so much to prevent it
> > > > from being digested by others, but to prevent self-digestion (a compo-
> > > > nent of most rotting).
> > >
> > > Since when does a live nut "rot" or "digest itself"???
> >
> > That's just the point.  A live one doesn't.  When living things are
> > not in suspended animation, but actively alive, they are filled with
> > enzymes that could be digesting their component parts, but the major-
> > ity of those enzymes are controlled and kept from doing that.
>
> I think you are mixing things up a little here. No self-digestion takes
> place within a nut and neither are the enzymes (presuming you mean those
> which trigger off germination) controlled. They are merely inactive
> until they come into contact with water and the other environmental
> conditions (e.g. temperature) are also right.

Alan, perhaps it's a language problem, but you keep coming back as if
you have a contradictory statement, then say something that doesn't
disagree with what I said at all.  You say that the enzymes are not
controlled, but you agree that they are inactive.  Then what is it
about the word "controlled" that you take issue with?  By my use of
the word, if an enzyme that requires water to function is deprived
of water, it is controlled.  If these enzymes are inactive, but not
controlled, just what is it that renders them inactive?  Their will??

> > control takes energy.  A sleeping seed is in a different situation.
> > Most seeds contain the very enzymes that they have inhibitors for,
> > but when they're dormant, they have no influx of energy, so those
> > enzymes have to be locked up chemically.
> >
> I don't agree here either. Seeds (i.e. ripe seeds) are contained in
> a husk, which inhibits germination through water and light when the
> seeds are not ripe (why do you think seeds are sold in watertight and
> lightproof packages?). As soon as the seed is ripe the husk splits.
>
> > All this isn't something I can reference, since it was part of a
> > lecture and not something I read.  My apologies.
>
> Shoot that lecturer. ;-)

Until he's proven incorrect, I'd prefer to let him and his ideas live.
I'm no unquestioning disciple of his, by any means, but I haven't yet
seen anything that shows that his ideas are incompatible with reality
either.  I try to keep an open mind (but, as they say, not so open
that my brain falls out).

> > Also, though the idea of enzyme inhibitors as preventers of diges-
> > tion by those who may eat the seeds makes sense when the seed isn't
> > chewed, it's a very different situation if it is.  If a particular
> > seed always gets chewed (likely for those that are large), the diges-
> > tive enzymes of the chewer exert no evolutionary pressure whatsoever.
>
> I can see what you are getting at..and you are right in some respects..
> but not in the case of humans. Birds (which evolved from reptiles)
> swallow seeds whole and can utilize some (although berry seeds are
> generally ejected intact). The same goes for many other creatures in
> no way related to man.

I think you are misunderstanding the phrase "evolutionary pressure".
I should have been more explicit: If a particular seed always gets
chewed, the digestive enzymes of the chewer exert no evolutionary
pressure whatsoever UPON THE SEED.

If, like I said, a particular seed ALWAYS gets chewed, the presence
of digestive enzymes is a moot point, so inhibitors of digestive
enzymes are not something that will be selected for in that seed.
I wasn't saying that this situation is common.  I was just using the
always-being-chewed scenario as one end of a scale, with the never-
being-chewed scenario at the other end.  The purpose of the scale was
to show that evolutionary pressures are not the same for every seed.
Therefore, one has to be very careful when making generalizations
about the relationships between seeds and seed eaters and which
seeds are "meant" to be eaten by whom.

> > If, on the other hand, a seed always goes straight through, it's a
> > different story.  So, as seeds come in all sizes and styles, the
> > situation is complicated and doesn't lend itself to wide generaliza-
> > tions.
>
> It wasn't a wide generalization Carol, it was a generalization as far
> as humans and animals closely related to humans are concerned.

From reading to the end of your last message, I gather that we may
have gotten to the bottom of the misunderstanding, but I'm still not
absolutely sure.  Are you saying that while seeds are not meant to be
eaten by humans and animals closely related to humans, they are meant
to be eaten by some other creatures?  If so, then I misunderstood you.

Is that the case?

:)
Carol