Hi Roberta,

> Hi Alan, all,
>
> I started writing a brief reply and just started sharing my thoughts in depth.
> So, this is one of my long posts.
>
Constructive criticism is always welcome.

> > > Personally, I think a two week fast on distilled water will injure most
> > > people's health.
> >
> > I suspect this is a "gut feeling" on your part rather than the result of
> > any experience with distilled water. You have obviously been reading
> > some literature on this so I would be greatful if you could quote it
> > so that I can reply.
>
> Well, no this isn't "gut feeling" - Let me introduce myself to you - I don't
> think we've had a discussion here yet.  I'm a trained and licensed health care
> professional, and extended (for weeks on end) fasting (as opposed to brief,
>  like
> up to two days or so) on water only is medically documented to be injurious
>  to a
> normal body, as we do need nutrients (minerals, protein, fats, vitamins to
>  name
> some of the chemical components) to be well.

>From our standpoint, fasting with water should only be carried out for
 to
three weeks at the most (two weeks is usually enough for regular fasters).
We also have MDs within our ranks and the general opinion is that medical
supervision is not necessary during such a short fast...although MDs
like to supervise to earn money of course.

>So if you did this water only
>  fast
> indefinitely you'd die of malnutrition.

Obviously. Nobody would or should be foolish enough to do that!!

>  You CAN survive for two weeks on
>  water
> only, but you cannot have optimum health on this for an extended period.
>
You can survive for a lot longer than that..but three weeks at the
most is generally sufficient. I have yet to hear of anyone (I'm in
Germany BTW) who has suffered rather than benefited from such a fast.

> So my statement isn't "gut feeling" but observation and personal experience
> watching many patients who have tried to do this before coming to me for
> treatment.  If anyone tries to do this they'll feel weak, tired and exhausted.

Slightly weak yes, but tired and exhausted by no means..in fact quite
the opposite (except on the second day when detox is at its highest).

> That is not a good sign of health.  The regimens I put my patients on always
> have them feeling energetic, not weak.  Put your average person on a daily
>  diet
> of a little (like a half pint to a pint) of fresh vegetable juice plus lots of
> water for many days and most people will detox for a couple of days, but be
> highly energetic, mentally alert, physically become more well if they were
> suffering from any ailment.
>
Juice fasts are not fasts at all and the juice also induces hunger...
whereas fasting with water only (plus bowel irrigation daily) actually
removes hunger completely (for this reason it can be dangerous if
extended beyond three weeks).

> It is has also been documented that in lab tests animals that are lean, and
> which are put on near starvation diets for periods of time have extended
> longevity by a very significant factor.  Scientists are still determining all
> the reasons why.  Still that is not water only fasting.

Aaaaah..but they do. The uptake of nutrients is improved when eating less
(but eating good food of course).

> One reason for the extended longevity is that when mammals digest food they
> obtain nutrients, but also there are other chemicals created/released during
> digestion which cause
> extremely minute damage to the cells, including but not limited to damage to
>  the
> DNA.  This damage can actually be measured by chemically testing the
> urine.  The more a mammal eats, the more damage is done to the DNA in a day.

Unless you are talking about free radicals...I would like a quote on
this one.

> This damage
> is measurable in humans and what is not known is whether the DNA repairs
>  itself
> later.  All that is known is that it is usually damaged after eating.  So
> partial fasting gives the body some nutrients but also causes a minimal amount
> of damage to the DNA and, if the body treats DNA like any other body part,
>  maybe
> it will repair the damage when it has the opportunity.  Some foods damage the
> DNA more than others but I haven't seen research about whether cooked and
> processed foods cause more damage which is of course what I suspect.

So do I.

> If one's
> DNA were all perfect, one would live much longer, since, in a sense, as we age
> or become unwell our bodies "forget" how to make a perfect copy of what it
> made
> before and hence you have cancer or something like that.  My thoughts is that
> raw unprocessed foods contain healthy DNA which our bodies could somehow use
>  to
> maintain or repair its own.
>
Well thought ma'am!

> > > I would never recommend that for any patient.  I think eating very
> > > sparingly or nearly fasting is much preferable.
> > >
> > Eating "sparingly or nearly fasting" is not fasting and the root of
> > the problem that most people have with dieting..i.e. the so-called
> > "yo-yo effect" where one tends to gain weight faster afterwards than
> > before.
>
> Well, now we were not talking about weight loss; we are talking about fasting
>  to
> heal, and
> specifically to heal herpes.

Agreed...but both the obese and herpes sufferers (as well as many others
with a variety of illnesses) benefit.

> Well, I have helped patients with using only
> natural means - using treatments that stimulate the body's immune system and
> to
> initiate healing.  I have found people get well fastest on a very sparing diet
> of fresh raw stuff, or nearly fasting.  We can start another thread on
>  dieting,
> but that is not the point of this discussion.
>
Changing over to a raw food diet without fasting causes more problems
than it solves. The worst problem is usually digestive upsets and
the quick return to "eating as before" as a result. Fasting for two
to three weeks is the most important prerequisite for changing over
to a raw diet. Not only because of the detox but also because anything
and everything usually tastes good (i.e. raw food) after a fast.

> > > I have helped people with herpes by using Chinese herbs.  My patients
> > > have all told me that this works well. Since I always recommend raw
> > > foods for any infection or immune system problems I have to think the
> > > herbs work best with lots of raw foods.
> > >
> > Imported Chinese herbs have been found to contain high levels of
> > heavy metals and even conventional medicines. Herbs grown naturally
> > are also a part of every raw food diet (herbs are vegetables as
> > long as they are deemed edible..those which contain toxins are
> > not natural human food, i.e. even though the medical industry
> > uses some of these toxins as medicine). I eat many wild plants
> > and do not consider them to be "herbs" (the word has a medicinal
> > touch) but merely alternative vegetables.
>
> Wrong!  Chinese herbs don't contain high levels of heavy metals, or certainly
> not any more than another country's herbs.  I find your statement irritating
> because it makes it sound like Chinese foods and herbs are somehow excessively
> toxic, and I think your statement is ridiculous.
>
Perhaps you should get them tested before you comment. In addition, there
is no such thing as a healing herb. Herbs (wild plants) may improve
health if eaten fresh and live but will certainly have the opposite
effect if eaten dead and possibly dried. The only thing that can heal
is the body itself..and correct fasting gives it the chance.

> However, regarding toxicity, let's clarify this:  I agree that imported
>  Chinese
> PILLS have been found to contain toxins, but not Chinese herbs which are
> plants.  That is why I never give pills made in China to my patients.  I know
> all about this- it is what I have done for a living for nearly 20 years and
>  have
> grown up in a Chinese American family so had exposure to this even prior to
> that.  I take my patients OFF Chinese pills all the time and consider
>  dangerous,
> injurious and generally to be avoided
> unless there are no other options, in which case it is better to alleviate
> suffering than to allow people to be extremely unwell, which, fortunately is
>  not
> the case these days since natural, non-toxic herbs are readily available.  I
> just did this for one patient yesterday - she consulted me about herbs - she
>  had
> bought something from a massage therapist who thought he could go around
> prescribing Chinese pills - IMO these untrained people are downright
>  dangerous -
> and she instantly put them in the trash which is where I think majority of the
> Chinese pills belong.  There are one or two brands of pill herbs made in China
> which have excellent purity and these are exceptions.
>
> Not everyone who eats raw foods eats herbs.  I do, and I grow them for myself
>  in
> my garden, but most people do not necessarily eat herbs.  Herbs taste very
> delicious when fresh, when your body needs them.

Your body always needs them...and is programmed to need them.

> There are about 400 Chinese "herbs" of which about 1/4 are consumed in the
> Chinese diet as food, some of which aren't considered herbs in the American
> culture.  Here in the US people do not consume herbs very much.  These 400
>  have
> been extensively documented and every student of Chinese medicine must learn
>  the
> dozens of properties of each one to become licensed here in California to
> practice medicine as a TCM practitioner.

Many medicines (in fact most up to about 20 years ago) are made from
herbal extracts. Not one of these medicines has ever cured anybody of
anything. Subduing symptoms rather than addressing the cause is not
the answer (Paracelsus was wrong...Hippocrates was right..and docs should
not forget that they swore an oath on the latter rather than the
former).

> For example, these are classified as Chinese medicinal herbs and have been
>  known
> to have specific healing properties, and contra-indications.

No herb can heal...full stop.

>  And they are
>  also
> eaten, sometimes also put in soups and food dishes in Chinese culture:  whole
> barley, scallion, ginger, garlic, aduki bean, mung bean, dioscorea,
> chrysanthemum, garlic-chive, peppermint, leek, licorice root, jujube, lily,
> bamboo, loquat fruit, and more that I don't know the English names for.
>
> > PS I am still waiting to eat my hat. ;-)
>
> Well, all I can say, is that my experiences are true.  I have a number of
> patients who have told me they either greatly improve on the regimen I put
>  them
> on or consider themselves "cured" because they haven't had another outbreak
> incident since treatment with me.  None of them fasted on water only.  All of
> them went on a mainly raw, unprocessed foods diet plus the herb formulas
>  which I
> made for them.
>
They would probably have done even better if you had left out the
"herb formulas" Roberta.

Best regards,

Alan