Hi tom,

> >>Jean-Louis
> >>  -Fruitarianism can work fine, and even very well, for a few months
> >> or, if fruit is of very high quality, a few years.
>
> Alan:
> >Tom Billings also claims this..but there is no proof as yet
> >because quality fruit has not been on the market long enough..
> >and eaten alone long enough by enough people..to be able to make
> >such a statement. Chimps etc. still get along well with plenty of
> >fruit in comparison to the quantities of other things they eat.
>
> Tom:
> I have discussed this topic extensively of late, on this list. I have
> pointed out that one cannot prove a negative, and that the burden of
> proof lies on the pro-fruitarian side. Further I have pointed out that
> I have examined a number of claims of success on long-term, fruitarian
> 100% raw diets and found them all dubious, lacking credibility. Summary: to
> date, there is no credible proof for your claim, and plenty of evidence
> to indicate the claim is false, with "quality" being the latest excuse
> embraced by the raw vegan diet gurus, who are desperate to find ANY
> excuse to explain the massive failure (long-term) of the diets they
> promote.
>
This cutting and pasting of the self-same nonproductive argumentation
is getting rather tiring Tom. Say it once if you believe it and
then let it be. The fact still remains that if cardio-vascular
ailments, cancers, diabetes and co are still the number one killers
of western people (and not of the apes, who have been around just as
long as we have and some of which are nearly identical to ourselves)
then we are certainly doing something wrong. Do you have any
other answers?

> At some point people must wake up and realize that people are more important
> than idealistic dietary dogma, a great deal of which is nonsense anyway.
>
And people who dismiss healthy diets (at least diets that are most
certainly, with or without raw meat, more healthy than your average
normal dieting practises) with catch phrases are certainly being
less of a service to those "people who are more important" than
those providing tangible counterarguments rather than merely
arguing about the logistics.

 > PS chimps do eat lots of fruit, and also lots of insects, leaves, roots,
> and meat.
>
I have never denied this..but at least I like to provide some
sort of proof (like you should do when making such statements):

             Pygmy chimpanzee   Chimpanzee   Gorilla   Orang utan   AVERAGE
             ______________________________________________________________

Fruits, berries    80.0%           58.0%       20.0%      50.0%       52.0%

Sprouts, leaves,   18.5%           21.0%       70.0%      30.0%       35.0%
wild plants

Roots, seeds       not known        9.0%        4.0%       5.0%        4.0%

Galls, bark        not known        5.0%        0.95%      5.0%        3.0%

Blossoms           not known        4.0%        5.0%      10.0%        5.0%

Small animals       1.0%            1.6%        0.0%       0.0%        0.6%

Insects             0.5%            1.4%        0.5%       0.0%        0.4%

These figures were put together from reports by renowned ape experts
such as Jane Goodall etc..

Hope you are eating raw..and not more than 1.6% raw animals and
1.4% insects..and over 50% raw fruit of course. ;-)

Alan