Hi Liza,

Thanks for the kind words. Actually the post you replied to I thought I
discarded first -  I thought I was going on a bit too much about myself and
I don't know if Axel was looking for that <g>. I don't like other people to
think my experiences are 'too relevant' to anyone elses since we all go down
a unique path. I guess if I qualify my authoritative musings with weasel
words people won't take them too seriously, which is what I hope for.

>> I don't really know you, but I do know
>> that extremes for more than a short period can be harmful, especially I
>> imagine going from one extreme to another.
>
>
>Great advice, great thinking, great great great (at least in my opinion :)
>).
>

It is sort of common sense. But I think people can be so desperate to find
'the answer' to their health problems that they may stick with something
long beyond its utility (eg fruit-only diet, 'yeast free' diet, or taking
piles of megavitamins). As the symptoms get worse after a long time on a
strict 'cleansing' diet one may think he/she is detoxing more, but in fact
eventually the person may actually be getting more toxic as proteins,
minerals or certain other food factors in the diet that are deficient from
the limited nutrition cannot do their routine 'cleanup' job from the effects
of metabolic processes. I see it perhaps as deficiency/toxicity being two
sides of the same coin, and having similar symptoms (fatigue, pain, mental
imbalance).

>> I became too thin and hypothyroid
>> a couple of years ago on a mostly vegetable diet with no meat and some
>> tofu - fortunately I was smart enough to figure out where I went wrong,
and
>> correct and reverse the problems (with help from an MD).
>
>If you have the time, I would be very interested to hear more details of
>this experience - what went wrong, how you "tracked it down," and what
>helped.
>

I'll try to keep it brief. This was 2 1/2 years ago. I had been influenced
by the post of some people on a Compuserve health forum who were promoting
vegetarianism - so I started a cleansing type of diet (largely but not all
raw), and initially it agreed with me. I adjusted the diet so it contained
little grains or fruit (they seemed to aggravate the yeast problems I had at
the time), and tried to get my protein mostly from nuts and tofu. I did it
for three months, and then I started to feel cold and get sluggish. I also
realized I had dropped to 105 lbs at 5'8" (normal for me, having a thin
frame, is 125 - 130 #). Fortunately an MD had been monitoring my thyroid
status, and he picked up a sharp drop and started me on thyroid supplements.
Basically I think it was lack of variety in protein, perhaps the trypsin
inhibitors in the tofu, and overall lack of calories that caused the
problems. There may also have been a fluoride factor from the filtered water
I had started drinking but that is more hypothetical.

Currently I'm back to 125#, and totally stopped thyroid about 8 months ago
as the gland is working right again.

>
>I've discovered cassia on this list, too, and have taken it three times
>now. Where did you get yours? I can't figure out if mine has gone bad and
>lost it's punch, or whether my intestines are just not responsive to it.  I
>was told by the man I bought it from to take 3-5 discs, with three hours on
>each side of eating, and in a few hours to expect to see results. I took
>three the first time, and nothing happened. The second time I took more -
>six or seven maybe - and many hours later (maybe ten) I felt a little
>different. So the third time I decided hey - go for broke - and I ate
>probably three very large tablespoonfuls (mine has a very mild fruity
>taste, not bad but not particularly good either). The same thing happened -
>maybe ten hours later I felt just the littlest rumblings, and nothing
>particularly different seemed to be eliminated. I'm dissappointed, since
>I've read that great things happen with this.
>

I got mine from Manis - $40 for a 1# jar. I've eaten lots more than you-
usually several tablespoons at one time. Over a two week period ending a
week ago, I ate a 1 pound jar. Initially eating so much did cause some
temporary intestinal pain until after eliminating, but now I can take more
if I wish with less discomfort. A person eating a 'typical' industrial diet
would need to be very cautious with this stuff.

>Paul, what makes you think its old foul material that's being eliminated,
>and not just your daily meal? I've heard different opinions on this, where
>some (docs, colon hydrotherapists, and nutritionists) say that it is simply
>not true that stool can adhere to the colon wall and be retained for long
>periods. But I've also talked to professionals who say that this _does_ in
>fact happen, and that they've personally seen eliminations where there can
>be no question but that it is very old material.
>

Normally the food I now eat produces little odor in the stool, unless I eat
cooked greens which I rarely do, or the meat I eat has started to putrefy (I
do my best to eat meat or fish as fresh as possible and avoid non-organic
sources). When last summer for several weeks I ate daily just raw vegetables
and sprouts and a few raw country hen eggs for protein and no meat, my
stools had almost no detectable odor.* Some of the odors as I eliminated
with help from Cassia were so bad they simply had to be old food (or old
drug residues or other waste products of metabolism). The quantity coming
out was much more than what was coming in. It took a few days of lots of
elimination before all the 'new' food was flushed out and apparently old
deposits started to be removed. There was a sensation of something being
dislodged during these eliminations.

*aside - this experience made me realize how easy it can be to be 'fixated'
on 'cleanliness' in the diet, but I realized eating like this that while I
did feel better in some ways  - at the same time it did nothing for
improving fatigue or strength which was what I was looking for from my food.
So I was able to let go of it and start eating 'less clean' but more
strengthening foods. But I did learn that I do better with raw veggies as
opposed to cooked.

>It has also been said about cassia that it is _not_ a laxative (meaning it
>does not work through irritation of the intestinal wall) but somehow works
>differently in the body. Do you, or anyone else, know anyghing more about
>its properties? If it turns out that it is in fact just a laxative like any
>other, then I'm not as interested.
>
>(I think I want it to be magical). :)
>

I just don't know, but Kirt had said there should be no problem with
habituation. I don't have an addictive personality or any major fetishes or
fixations that I know of, so I figured I could use it and stay out of
trouble in any case.

>Anyway, I like the _idea_ of cassia very much, and would be happy if I knew
>it did what it's rumoured to do.
>

I know it definitely 'can'.

>> The truth is probably .......... that I could eat very healthy
>> for a long time - many years - and still not be as healthy as many SAD
>> eaters that have a different constitution .....
>
>I am SO glad to see this. Seems like common sense, but this little
>sentiment you've expressed is actually a key concept, which people in the
>"health-food, special-diet" world seem to be unwilling to acknowledge. In
>my opionion, diet is a critical factor, but, fortunately or unfortunately,
>even the "best" diet probably won't stave off death forever, and it may not
>even ensure good health. There are too many other critical factors, when it
>comes to health.
>

I think of my SIL's SIL (I don't know what you call that relation) who has
been on candida/food allergy/elimination diets for many years - her health
is still poor. Who knows what all the reasons are for that, (beyond food,
relationship and life fulfillment issues have to play a role, and may feed
back into the food part of it) but I'm sure it is not a simple situation.

I think my posts are getting longer, not shorter! Oh well, I've got next
week off and will besides getting caught up on some things have some time to
'fool around' so I'll likely be rather active around here...

Paul ([log in to unmask])