On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:41:29 -0400, Don Wiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Amadeus Schmidt wrote:
>
>>And where do *you* get your 1200mg calcium per day from,
>>if you don't eat dairy?
>
>1200mg calcium per day is the recommendation for someone eating a modern
>diet. If you are paleo and avoid all of the below points you don't need
>1200mg, as you are not losing 1200mg out of your system daily.

Don, you gave an excellent overview why someone could
get osteoporosis and/or calcium loss.
Thank you.

I know some people who I whished they'd read it.

You mention several points that cause extra calcium loss
(phytic acid,sodium,low
vitamin D,low exercise,
inadequade magnesium,excess protein,sugar, phosphocic acid,
coffee, caffeine, celiac desease)

In the studies you mentioned (with the high meat protein)
it is not mentioned where these people got their
calcium from, but it *is* mentioned explicitely
that at least 800mg calcium was necessary.

If you say that *you* don't need it (the calcium)
then the conclusion would be that each and every of
the test-persons in the study you mentioned had
one or more of the above extra calcium loss faults.
Then the study doesn't help us to decide if high
protein input is safe for "paleo"s.

If the study sais that heavy protein
consumption with high calcuim is safe, I can't
see a reason why to assume it would be safe
without high calcium.
Calcium can reduce acidity and protein increases acidity.
So if you can't reduce it with the calcium something
else
 must be found as a working substitute.

Maybe it's the magnesium.
In Cordaine's article this appears to be the
the main factor. If it's the magnesium, I think
we should look how a high magnesium intake could
be achieved (for the heavy protein eaters).

In this attempt I looked up good magnesium sources.
Best found were: (at 300mg recommendation)
 Pumpkin seed                       534 mg/100 g     871 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Sunflower seed                     400 mg/100 g     674 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Sesam                              351 mg/100 g     593 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Linseed                            350 mg/100 g     696 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Poppy seed                         331 mg/100 g     593 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Brazils                            300 mg/100 g     435 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Wheatsprout                        250 mg/100 g     676 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Cashew
                 248 mg/100 g     392 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Pineseed                           234 mg/100 g     366 mg/1000 kcal  „
 Millet                             200 mg/100 g     619 mg/1000 kcal   
 Spinach                             60 mg/100 g
 Banana fresh                        40 mg/100 g

regards
Amadeus