On Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:10:30 -0400, Ilya <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Amadeus Schmidt wrote:
>> I'd consider such large protein amounts as not ideal on the long run
>> because of acidification and kidney strain.
>Are you talking about strictly meat or all of the animal (which would be
>consumed by the primitive h/g)?
1 kg of meat is  210 grams of pure protein (medium fat cattle).
Our (german) official recommendation is 55g for a 70 kg young male.
Would you really assume a 4-time as high protein *need*?
Then, most people on the world,
even in USA and Europe, would have a severe protein *lack*.
*If* you don't assume the your needs so high, then it seems like
that a big part of the
protein is eather left unused/undigested
or used for burning as an energy supply.
I can't see a sense in consuming excess amounts of unsued protein
just for the purpose of getting enough of vitamin b1 or calories.
There are better supplies (fat or seeds for example).
BTW I have read that our digestion system can't handle more than
50 to 60 grams of protein in *a single meal*, anyway.

>Also, kidney strain from protein has been
>debunked quite a while ago. This is only true for somebody with kidneys
>already damaged by some other condition.
Ok accepted.

>You appear to be an ethical vegetarian who is searching for another reason
>to not eat meat and for reasons to eat foods other than meat. This is a
>perfectly fine attitude, but it does not make for a good and objective way
>to determine facts.
Maybe I could be an ethical vegetarian, *if* I had the decision.
But I don't have it. It's
 a aesthetical thing for me, as I already told.
I have eaten any kind of meats for long years, may it be
brain, liver, stomach, lung, muscles, tongue, skins, and through sausages
probably almost anything else from a range of animals.
After discovering power-plants (let say unrefined and organically
grown plants and new variations),I had less desire after it.
And now i simply don't feel attracted to meats at all.
Beeing in a slaughterhause and seeing a bleeding carcass has always
pushed me back. Now I just follow my feelings.
I think it is a wise thing to listen to one's feelings.

> When I was in the grad school one of the first things
>they told us about gathering and processing data was not to look for a
>particular result (if you do then you'll find it). Simply look at the data
>and see where it leads. Otherwise it is very easy to throw away some data
>point (that doesn't fit your des
ired result) because of some excuse and add/
>shift data (that does fit your desired result) because of some other excuse.
>I think you would have a much easier time discussing topics on this list if
>you could separate your ethical views (which I don't question) from your
>search for facts.
Of course. And that applies to any direction and POV, of course.
I *don't* consider my ethical or aestethical views when discussing
nutrition topics. I didn't mention my attitude yet because
_I_don't_want_a_vegetarian_discussion_. I'm tired of it.
And I don't suppose it here. I'm interested in true paleolithic nutrition,
and this gives very much on ones choice of plants.
And I try to see any set of data from as much viewpoints as possible.
Paleolithical meat consumption amounts for example may be interpreted
within a wide range, and for a very long time we have only *very* vague
assumptions.
Primates includi
ng paleolithic humans all in all
never were true vegetarians, nor carnivores.
To my present state of information I stand for a (optional) *small* (game)
meat portion in the diet and can assume it historical correct
for _our_anchestors_ .
And I also question Ray's statement that vegetarians can't have a
paleolithic nutrition. Neather argument (iron or protein)
works for me, even if you propose really extreme protein needs
(I also consider it not that important btw).
Nutrition from plants only is easy, if so desired for any reason.
Please accept that I'm not here to discuss vegetarian topics,
lets better head for finding a good and practical way
to implement a nutrition without the shortcomeings and drawbacks of
maladaption.

regards, Amadeus