On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:50:29 -0400, Todd Moody <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>It could be that virtually all of us are vitamin deprived and as
>a result eating more calories than we should, but only some of us
>are, for unknown reasons, becoming obese as a result.  That is an
>*hypothesis* that would be interesting to investigate.
Many are obese, most are fighting, few have an easy way.
This *is* my hypothesis.
Provided that humans have a some system that can detect and remember
nutrition values by food item/meal, it seems very logical to me
(I suppose this system works by remembering taste-substances and associating
them with the satisfaction comeing after an expericened meal).

>>B1 is needed for burning of carbs, right? This may cause storage instead of use.
>Possibly.  Is there evidence that this is in fact what is happening?

There are so many distracting scientific works on the one or other stuff.
However some vitamin-responsibilities are known.
B1 for carbohydrate-processing and nervous-functions for example.
If you know that you have a lack of it, then you can know that these
systems will get in some kind of disorder, again influencing more and
other subsystems in the body. Common lacks on certain vitamins are known,
one can easily check them in its own case with a program.
B1, folic, B6 , C are deficient in a great range of people.
They are IMO much more of concern as only thinking of "enough protein",
"less eouogh" calories.

>The trouble with this recommendation is that in a polluted world
>the organ meats tend to concentrate the pollutants.
Unfortunately. Only remedy i know is to go lower in the food chain
towards organic produced, or wild plants.

>if the
>supermarkets were not filled with these foods, we would indeed be
>eating large quantities of vegetables and fruits.
Unfortunately.
I wanted to point out also that the refined products are choosen because
the unrefined (and vitamin-rich) products normally come togeather
with rich protein and people try to avoid the over-protein.

>Getting adequate protein, vitamins, and calories from plant foods
>is difficult without resorting to non-paleo plant foods, unless
>one has access to ample sources of fruit and nuts.

Facing that problem I for myself found out that any plant seeds do
very good in their combination, may it be grains or anything other like nuts.
If you consider all kinds of grass seeds (=grains) non-paleo
you have a little harder time, but you'll find.
I personally avoid only wheat and virtually every refined product.
I assume other grains (rice, millet, oats, spelt) as at least mesolithic
(17000bc...) with a long adaption time and as acceptable for me.
Anti grain arguments are always based on people having allergies (like Ray),
or on a mere assumptions based on adaption time.
Whereever these allergies come from
- yearlong misuse through refined products,chemical treatments,altered genes
- yearlong vitamin deprivement on "normal nutrition"
- or lectins we are not adapted to...
I find it noticeable that in any grain based society before beginning of
food processing (let say 1850 in the west)
hardly ever such allergies are reported.
May it be hunza, egypt, japanese, okinavan or your grandma.
They ate _lots_ of (unrefined) grains, got old and were healty - no allergies.

I've been encouraged to assume a longer adaption time also
by the article of Rüdiger Hoflechner at
 http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind9808&L=paleodiet&F=&S=&P=1094
showing that even wild grasses are an easy and rich available food resource
(in Africa!) and therefore could have been it for very long times back.

Even if you avoid all grass type seeds (grains), you'll find a plenty of
rich nutritious paleolithic plant seeds or roots.
Buckwheat, quinoa, sunflower,hazel,beet are easy available (cheaper) examples.
I'm always again amazed when analyzing them in an amount that satisfies
caloric needs, to see how complete most vitamins/proteins/minerals are.

>(I know that we have a difference of opinion about what counts as adequate protein)
I still owe you a translation, it'll come.
regards
Amadeus