Jean-Louis,

A few remarks on your few remarks...


> A few remarks on killing animals and spirituality:
>
>  -It is true that that some people choose not to kill for spiritual
> reasons, but many people who wouldn't kill an animal are not spiritual
> at all: they don't kill, just because they are afraid of blood, which
> has nothing to do with being spiritual.


Or because they're afraid of violence; or because they really LIKE violence
and they're afraid of THAT; or because their new girlfriend think's
killing's uncool; or because their best friend in high school loved to hunt
and drink too much at the same time so who knows you probably become an
alcoholic if you kill animals; or because his uncle got killed in a hunting
accident; or because they don't know how to use a gun or a bow or knife, or
because they are middle class and if it's not sport-hunting for big game in
Africa think it's beneath them to kill low-class animals like deer for the
tacky purpose of eating them; or because they won't admit that they'd slap
a mosquito in a Minnesota minute but they don't call this killing,......

>  -I don't have a clear definition of spirituality, but I don't see why
> killing animals should in principle be incompatible with any/all forms of
> spirituality. I admit that killing by itself is not spiritual, but
> neither are eating, peeing, etc.

HA!!! That is hilarious!

But actually, come to think of it, there are religions that do, in fact,
sanctify (and even codify) all the mundane acts of daily living, even
including which side of the bed to get out on, which foot to put down first
(honestly!!), and definately EATING. (Ugh, man oh man there's been a raft
of philosophizing about the spirituality of eating - in the New Age world a
la Gabriel Cousens; and of course in the many ways that eating is
incorporated into religious ritual the world over (I should say, in the way
that religious ritual is incorporated into eating. The lower life forms
haven't incorporated religion into their eating, yet, like us).

I shouldn't make fun of it, though. I personally LOVE Christmas dinners,
holiday dinners of EVERY kind, in EVERY culture I can possibly manage to
get in contact with, and I personally love ritual, and tradition, and
ethnic cooking and feasts, and the singing and music and celebration and
fun and planning and lovliness and gaiety that goes into this, and how it
centers around the dinner table.

>  -In hunter-gatherer societies, every male has to kill, and doesn't
> mind doing so. If you belonged to a society where killing is normal,
> then you wouldn't find it repulsive. (Even in today's world, farmers
> don't mind slaughtering a chicken for dinner.)

Thank you, I appreciate your saying this. These discussions about hunting
and killing always include an un-aware and implicit put-down of the
millions of people world-wide for whom killing their food is just part of
their culture, and always has been. It is VERY small-minded to ignore most
of the world's population, and what they know, when it comes to this issue.

>  -Not all people who don't kill animals are peaceful (Hitler was
> vegetarian). It is possible to kill animals for food and be peaceful
> towards other humans.

And thanks again for this. So Hitler was a vegetarian, huh? Didn't know
that. That is an interesting, and rather weird, bit of useful trivia. I'll
definately keep that one in my hat, next time this sort of discussion
presents itself.

Again, the un-expressed assumption that anyone who hunts or kills animals
is a violent person, is insulting, and bigoted. Here in the United States
(don't know about other cultures) it definately has an important
uppity-superior classist aspect to it, since, for historical reasons and
reasons of style, more people from poor and blue-collar backgrounds hunt
than do white-collar types. This problem of holier-than-thou class
superiority, posing under the pretense of idealism, very much plagues the
vegetarian and "green" movements, (and other New Age movements, for that
matter). (For those not in the U.S., please ask if some of the references
in my paragraph are unclear).

Thanks again, Jean-Louis, for yet another terrific, wise and wonderful
post.

Love Liza

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[log in to unmask] (Liza May)