In a message dated 3/11/99 10:09:45 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:

<< That doesn't usually happen here, at least I haven't seen it since I've
 been a member. But every now and then someone new joins, with an agenda to
 convert or convince other people of the "rightness" of their personal
 opinions on diet; or to try to pose as an expert (in a field that is
 exceedingly complex and not at all understood even by people who's life's
 work is the research and study of human biochemistry and food metabolism).
 Such posters make themselves look a little foolish.

--Liza, as one who's "been there, done that," I'd like to submit that when a
newcomer comes on board, in most cases it has nothing to do with an "agenda."
When I was new to the list I was so excited to see so many well informed
health seekers I wanted to respond to almost every post that came across and
"talk," ie., contribute wherever I thought I might.

--I was brought up short more times than I like to recall, and burned a few
times, as well, simply because my enthusiasm was misinterpreted and
"netiquette" was unknown to me. When JR knocked me off the list a few times,
as he did you, I had to swallow my pride and not take it personally. Rules are
rules. It was just that I didn't know or understand them. Isn't the whole idea
of having a list and the internet available so people can "talk" to each
other? What's this about limiting to so many posts a day?  I still don't quite
understand that.

--But I had no "agenda," nor do I think Alan or Lance or Wes or Bob or Rex or
even you have. We are all "learners and leaders."

--A few of the "established" contributors might at first take offense at the
newcomers' seemingly overly-confident input, but if they will stop and
remember, they were probably just as embullient when they first signed on.
When the list was new, perhaps they had no "competition" so it was easy to
gain a sort of hierarchy. But we can only grow and keep from being stagnant if
we are open to new ideas, particularly from different cultures. A luxury the
"net" affords us.

--Jo, where are you? As a male with a name usually given to a woman, with a
unique Asian and Western heritage, you always brought a soothing,
understanding voice when a ruckus developed over someone who seemed to have an
obnoxious bent contributed "foreign" ideas.

Jo overlooked the sometimes undiplomatic approach of the newcomer in order to
glean any new message. Frankly, I think we haven't been too hospitable to
newcomers unless they take a submissive, "grateful for your wisdom and advice"
role. That's fine and appropriate for those new to the world of taking
responsiblity for their own health and well being, but we are alienating
ourselves from fine-tuning if we reject outright anyone whose voice has a
different ring.

 But mostly you'll find some great discussions, honest questions, musings,
 sharing of information, and help and support for the efforts to think
 rationally about food and eating.

--Very true. But we don't want to miss out on much by "scaring" new
contributors away by overwhelming them with our own "knowledge" and righteous
ways.

 > Even the below sexist comment.  Is
 > this common?  I really don't think I want this type of discourse in my
 > "language diet."

 --When cornered, condemned and "shot down" for something that wasn't
intended, one often reacts indiscriminately without thinking things through. I
don't think it was meant to be insulting. As Eleanor Roosevelt once said, one
can only be insulted if one agrees with what was said.

Thanks! Your comment is much appreciated (by me especially, since it was
 directed at me, but I'm sure by loads of other people who were offended as
 well).

 No, it's not common here on this list. And no, I agree, I don't want this
 kind of talk on my plate, either!

 Love Liza
 -- >>

--Liza, you are usually so patient and understanding. I suspect Alan got your
dander up when he "dared" disagree with some of your "wisdom."  I don't
pretend to be a whizz at diplomacy and am often a "bull in a china shop"
myself. I hope this isn't one of those times. Just know my intent is not to
divide but bring together so we all might benefit. I've reaped much from
Liza's many contributions (though I don't always agree), and lately from
Alan's. Again, if we all agreed on everything, there would be no growth. And
we must learn not to take offense where none was intended. I speak from MUCH
experience in that area;-) (Humility is now one of my FAVORITE virtues.)

FWIW:;-)
gerry