Hi Alan,

> Milk coagulates in a calfs stomach because it is exposed to the enzyme
> rennin (which neither adult cows or adult humans produce). Rennin used
> to be extracted from calves stomachs to make cheese. It is an entirely
> different coagulation than the coagulation caused by hydrochloric
> acid.

Whatever, coagulation--and longer retaining in the stomach as a
result--is not bad per se.

> Pepsin is secreted into the stomach in order to break down protein
> into aminos. Trypsin is secreted into the small intestine to aid
> the absorption of aminos. I see no connection with calcium bonded to
> casein.

Calcium is bonded to CPP (a component released by casein
digestion). The bond Ca-CPP is weak enough, so that calcium can be
absorbed (if my understanding is correct).

> I suspect this research was test-tube research for the
> dairy industry. And as to rats...they can not be compared with
> humans at all.

 -if you reject all scientific evidence that is contrary to your
opinions because you "suspect" that it was funded by the "dairy
industry" and that researchers have distorted the results, I am not in
a very fair position...

 -I agree that what is true for rats is not necessarily true for
humans, but you must admit that your adamant statement "no adult ANIMAL
can use the calcium in milk because of the lack of rennin" is
false--since rats constitute a counterexample. If milk calcium was not
absorbable by humans, then another explanation is needed.

 -If you think the research on the CPP-Ca bond is flawed, could you
supply a few references to articles that reach a different conclusion?

> I fail to see how these ratios were calculated?? Since when is, as
> in Colby, for example, 685 Ca and 457 P a ratio of 1.5???

"Maple V Release 4" says that 685/457 equals

1.4989059080962800875273522975929978118161925601750547045951859956236323851
    20350109409190371991247264770240700218818380743982494529540481400437636
    76148796...
(and then the decimals are repeated: 498905...)

that's approximately 1.5--up to an error of 0.07%.

> In addition, the magnesium figures should also be added because this
> element also plays a role in calcium absorption.

I am aware that dairy is very poor in magnesium:

          Ca         P      Ca/P   Mg      Ca/Mg
      (mg/100 g) (mg/100 g)     (mg/100 g)
Blue      528      387      1.4    23      23.0
Brie      184      188      1.0    20       9.2
Camembert 388      347      1.1    20      19.4
Cheddar   721      512      1.4    28      25.5
Colby     685      457      1.5    26      26.3
Gruyere  1011      605      1.7    36      28.1

human milk 32       14      2.3     3.4     9.4  (for comparison)

In another post, I said that few vegetables had favorable Ca/P and
Ca/Mg ratios, but that only _global_ ratios (in the entire diet) are
relevant. However the Ca/Mg ratio for dairy being typically 10 times
higher than for vegetables, and the SAD being poor in magnesium, this
constitues a very good reason why SADers can't use the calcium from
dairy very efficiently.

On the other hand, for someone getting adequate amounts of magnesium
from other sources, I don't see any reason why (s)he couldn't use
calcium from cheese. By the way, the ratio Ca/Mg for cocoa is 1:4. Is
that why people drink milk with chocolate? ;-)

--Jean-Louis Tu <[log in to unmask]>