David Mayne wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > Even then he does not edit anything AFAIK. jr is very direct and
> > does not play games with his list. If he took something out he
> > would say so.
> I would have to respectfully disagree on the "very direct" part.
> jr has not responded to a single question that I asked him,
> either on raw or in private, except for telling me to stop
> posting on the NFL, and the following au revoir:
This is jr's way of being direct. If he does something he say so.
However, if he doesn't want to discuss something, he will not respond.
I tried to discuss eating raw meat with him privately and he did not
respond. I took that to mean that he was not willing to discuss this.
I believe that he reads this list but again he may not respond. I knew
him when he was living in southern California six years ago. As a
former majordomo list owner, I have tried to help him with
configuration problems when he has asked.
> <snip>
> So. don't really know exactly why he kicked us off, but I can
> make some guesses about myself. It somewhat surpises me that
> he kicked off Liza as well. I can say that one thing the
> three people above appear to have in common - they all spoke
> out against the NFL at one point or the other.
I think, in his eyes, you continued the thread after he had asked to
end it. Other people had spoke out against NFL. Gene was an excellent
example. He made very strong points against NFL. I was going to post
something but I waited too long. I saw the warning from jr to drop it
and decided not to push it. I thought you did very well and applauded
you. I wish that you had had copies of both books and could have given
your own plagiarized excerpts instead of just posting Peter's and
Kurt's. I had some, it was very easy to spot. The only difficulty was
sometimes finding the corresponding chapter in NFL since not *all*
chapters were in the same order. They deserved everything you said. I
am really disappointed with NFL. The attacks turn me off. This has
been their style all along and is why I unsubscribed them before.
Stephen's "No Thanks" reply to your invitation of coming back on this
list was typical. If he tried his attacks here it would have quickly
gotten him on review. We welcome anyone interested in raw food here if
they are willing to be civil. The bit about talking to their lawyers
about suing Peter for posting excerpts from their book makes me wonder
if David Wolfe is telling the truth about being in law school. I am
not a lawyer and I know about the Fair Use provisions on the copyright
law. How could a law student not know?
In looking in RAW-EATING, I noticed that there was no copyright notice
but on the page facing the preface there is the following notice.
Because of e-mail restrictions I am not able to duplicate the exact
formatting that he used but the text is all there. All of the
capitalization is the same.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
THE RIGHT OF TRANSLATION OR REPUBLICATION IS RESERVED BY THE
AUTHOR
BUT QUOTATIONS AND EXTRACTS MAY BE MADE BY DUE
ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE
SOURCE.
ACKNOWLEDGMENT
I should like to express my great indebtedness to Mr. J. G. Hananian
for the care and thought with which he turned my book into fluent
English. In places the translation presented considerable
difficulties, but no efforts were spared to make the English version
as readable as possible.
ATERHOV
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Did NFL meet that requirement. I think that they fell far short of his
request. Too bad they could not have honored him more. It appears to
be his research that was published and copyrighted under their own
names.
Here is the way they did it in the First Edition: April,20, 1996.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright C 1996 Arlin, Wolfe
All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced, in part
or in whole, by any means, except for brief quotations embodied in
articles and reviews, without the express written consent from at
least two of the authors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there some way that I could get ATERHOV's written consent? He was
definitely one of the authors. Some might say he was the only real
author. You might call them editors. However I would not. Since they
did not give him proper credit as the source, I see them as
plagiarists. It is a shame. They are smart and personable. I would
expect better of them. Possibly they will do better in the future. I
think that they should paste an insert into all copies of the book
stating the true author and that they had only modernized it. Until
this happens I would not buy anything coming out in their names.
> Kirt, you now have some company for your misery (: I think jr
> has now surpassed the number of people kicked off of raw versus
> raw-food.
AFAIK I still claim this honor.
Our rules are clear and we make every attempt to work with a
subscriber. When this fails off they go.
Also I got tired of bounced messages coming back to my in box, so I
have set the list to full auto delete. If your mail box gets full,
listserv deletes you without my ever seeing it. AOL has this problem
more than any other provider. Unless I have unsubscribed someone for
cause, they can re-subscribe when their mail problem is fixed.
> Perhaps jr will update his raw welcome message and www page to
> say that folks who speak out against the zealotry and against
> the NFL are not allowed.
We shall see. jr is this the way that you see yourself?
Also with regards to unsolicited e-mail, I don't think I have received
any because of this list or its archives, but it is hard to tell since
I mainly use one address.
Dave Karas
raw-food list owner and raw food eater. My diet includes RAF & ROF.
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