Surtout plus de message. Rayez moi de vos listes. Ras le bol !!!!

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> De : Bill Bartlett <[log in to unmask]>
> A : [log in to unmask]
> Objet : Re: starting over again
> Date : mercredi 14 janvier 1998 03:01
>
> Steve Tomljenov wrote:
>
> [...]
> >
> >The fundamental question facing society is not an economic one, but
> >a political one.
>
> I'm not sure I agree with this Steve, although you may be using
"economic"
> in a way that is different to me. If you mean by this that modern
> capitalist society has sufficient productive capacity to provide for the
> needs of everyone, then I agree. But if you mean (as you seem to)  the
way
> the economy is organised, the inequality, the deprivation, the
> exploitation, in short the widespread misery created by the capitalist
> system in the midst of plenty, then I would obviously disagree.
>
> >How do we organize millions of people so that the laws
> >and institutions of that society are made in a way that benefits the
vast
> >majority, if not all, of it's members.
>
> That is an admirable objective, but of course it is not and never has
been
> the object of political government. Political government is the art of
> governing the majority in the interests of an elite.
>
> History teaches us that the form of political government began with the
> crack of the slave-drivers whip. That is to say it only became necessary
> when society became divided along class lines.
>
> Society is still divided along class lines. No longer Master and slave
(for
> the most part). No longer Lord and serf (at least not in western
> countries). But now we are divided between capitalists and workers,
divided
> also by fundamental conflict of interest which can only be resolved
through
> the control of some form of political government.
>
> So the reason political government never operates for the benefit of the
> vast majority is not that its method is flawed, but because it was
designed
> to do the exact opposite. Tinkering with it won't help either because
> political government is designed to serve the ECONOMIC system.
>
> I like your discussion of political systems (despite myself) though.
>
> But I think your premise, that one of the problems is the sheer size of
> electorates, is interesting. That has some truth, but I think my analysis
> (above) is closer to the mark.
>
> As a matter of fact my home state (Tasmania) is massively over-governed
by
> modern standards. It also has probably the most fair and democratic
> electoral system in the western world. This system, the Hare-Clark
> proportional representation system, elects 35 state parliamentarians, in
5
> geographical electorates.
>
> Each of the 5 electorate has only 50-60,000 electors (from memory, don't
> quote me) and since each electorate elects 7 members of parliament many
> Tasmanians DO know their politicians. I know a couple myself, it doesn't
> help much, because politicians are required to act in the interests of
the
> ruling class except at the margins.
>
> What is more, the Hare-Clark system is desi
> gned to minimise the influence
> of political parties in determining who is elected. The major parties
> nominate 7 candidates in each electorate, but only (at most) 4 will be
> elected and the party has no control over WHICH of its endorsed
candidates
> will get a guernsey. Tasmanians regularly turf out sitting politicians
from
> a political party and replace them with new members from the same
political
> party. I remember one particular case (although it happens every
election)
> where a highly respected, long serving member was turfed out because he
> ha
ppenned to be the Education Minister presiding over unpopular cuts in
> education funding.
>
> Anyhow, none of this changes the fundamental problems. Which is that REAL
> power is not in the hands of politicians and governments, it is in the
> hands of the owners of the means of production. So it is the economic
> system that must be changed, if we end the division of society along
class
> lines then political government will no longer be NECESSARY.
>
> Bill Bartlett
> Bracknell Tas.