> > > Jean-Louis:
> > > Just using cold-pressed oils _instead_ of hydrogenated oil is
> > > already a healthful practice.

> > Carol:
> > Might be just the lesser of two evils.

> Jean-Louis:
> I don't think cold-pressed oils are "evil"; at worst neutral,
> perhaps. Oils are indeed processed, but so are juices (do you also
> consider juices as evil?).

Carol:
Whoa there, J-L!  Yes, I did use the expression "lesser of two evils",
but that doesn't mean that I consider cold-pressed oils the work of
the Devil! :D :D (Sorry.  That just struck me funny.)  Anyhow...  I
just meant to say that cold-pressed oils and hydrogenated oils are't
necessarily at opposite ends of the
health-promotion/health-destruction
spectrum.  In my opinion, they might not be that far apart.  They
might
both be neutral.

As for juice, I drink it myself.  (And yes, compared to very fresh,
unheated juice from organic produce, I would have to say that the
bottled juices found in stores are downright demonic. :D)  I think
there's a world of difference between juice extracted seconds ago
(and at about 50 F) and oil that's been heated to 140 F, filtered,
re-filtered, and then left to sit around for a few days, weeks,
months...

> > > The low death rate from CHD in France (so-called "French paradox"),
> > > which is about twice lower than in the US or in North European
> > > countries, is attributed to the consumption of red wine and of olive
> > > oil
> >
> > By some.  It is attributed to other things by others.
>
> I just checked the WWW page "FLUID MILK CONSUMPTION PER CAPITA"
> <http://www.fas.usda.gov/dlp/circular/1997/97-07-Dairy/milkpcap.htm>
>
> and I see you are right that the French are moderate milk consumers,
> and that Northern Europeans and Americans consume much more milk,
> especially Finland which has one of the highest CHD rates in Europe;
> and that French people are heavy consumers or butter and cheese, so
> the culprit is fluid milk and not other forms of dairy

This question was investigated specifically (I'm sorry I don't have
the exact reference, but it was in the Townsend Letter.. late last
year?) and no correlation was found between levels of non-homogenized
milk products (most cheese, butter, and cream) and CHD, whereas a
strong one was found between CHD and homogenized milk.

The article didn't address this issue, but I wonder if more dairy
products are consumed raw in France.  I have heard that France is
not big on industrial produce (fruits and veggies bred for shipping
qualities instead of nutrition and flavor) and huge mono-farms like
America is; it seems that consuming dairy products fresh and raw
would fit in well with a more small-farm approach.  Comments?

> (with the cautionary note that correlations are not causes).

Of course -- a good thing to keep in mind when it comes to choles-
terol and HIV as well.  By the way... just yesterday, I happened to
come across an interview on NPR with the guy who started the investi-
gations into CHD and homocystein, Kilmer McCully.  He has a new book
out about his discoveries way back in 1969 that lead him to abandon
the cholesterol/fat theory of CHD causation and about how he was
persecuted for thinking differently.  The book is called The Heart
Revolution.  Might be worth a look.

Also on the show was a discussion of bacterial infection of arteries
as an emerging risk factor in CHD and stroke.  Interesting stuff...

:)
Carol