Hi Thomas,

> Alan:
> >If someone claims he or she feels better
> >after eating raw meat, for example, then there must be some proper
> >description of "feeling better" as well as some research to back this
> >up.
>
> Tom:
> I simply cannot resist re-stating Alan's assertion, with a tiny but
> significant change:
>
> >If someone claims he or she feels better
> >after eating a fruit diet, for example, then there must be some proper
> >description of "feeling better" as well as some research to back this
> >up.
>
> Note that I changed "raw meat" to "a fruit diet" in the above. Two points
> here:
>
> 1. Burden of proof. The burden of proof rests on those making positive
> claims. It is common practice in raw for folks to latch on to absurd
> claims and theories, then aggressively demand that others disprove them.
> This is an attempt to reverse the burden of proof. For an example of
> such an absurd claim: "spices are toxic," a claim which may be "proven"
> via bogus crank science.
>
> 2. Speaking of crank science, there is absolutely no scientific proof of the
> efficacy of fruitarian diets. All we have is anecdotal evidence, and
> look at the source: individuals known to be plagiarists, fanatics who are
> so hostile they get thrown off multiple mailing lists and must start their
> own crank science forums, "role models" who are emaciated, etc.
>
> Returning to crank science: there are fruitarian extremists who claim
> a scientific basis for fruitarianism, but my observation is that their
> "science" falls apart under close scrutiny.
>
First let me repeat (as you obviously did not read my introduction)
that I personally am not a 100% fruitarian. I eat fruit only for
breakfast only and raw veggies (including various wild plants
when available) for the rest of my meals. A true fruitarian in
our group is Helmut Wandmaker (who wrote a book called "If you
want to be healthy forget your cooking pots"). He really thrives
on this diet and many of his "patients" as well. From my point of
view it is too expensive to feed myself on fruit only from 100%
reliable sources (such as Orkos etc.). From the point of view of
nutrient content, however, I see no reason why one can not survive
and thrive on such a diet.

As to meat (whether raw or cooked) there are several reasons why I
reject it:

- I don't seem to need it and indeed see no reason why I should
waste precious energy on breaking down the protein chains into
simple aminos when I can get them "pure" from fruits and veggies.

- I see no reason for consuming saturated fats.

- I see no reason for consuming anything from growth hormones to
antibiotics to pesticides etc.

- I see no reason for consuming a pound of flesh which has needed
many many pounds of veggies and many wasted acres of land to reach
that weight.

- I see no proof that pre-fire man ate raw meat.

- I see no proof even in the bible (I myself am an atheist BTW) that
man was supposed to eat meat. Have a read of

http://www.ivu.org/articles/religion.html
http://ivu.org/articles/net/christ_veg.html

for example.

- I tend to agree with the Buddhists, for example, that all animal
life is sacred.

- I do not instinctively drool when I see..and instinctively try
to take a bite out of...any animal or bird or insect.

Best regards,

Alan