At 16:22 23/02/1999 PST, you wrote:
>Sorry that this is a few days late ... I've been too busy to get to my
>list mail.
>
>One of the problems that exists with the "milk is bad for you no matter
>what" arguments is the fact that many long-lived cultures use milk as a
>primary staple of their diet. The Hunza, for instance, use soured milks
>and fermented milks, as do many others. Dr. Price's travels showed no
>purely vegan cultures; all successful ones used animal products. There
>were NO raw vegan cultures at all. Except for those in colder climates
>where vegetation was sparse, meat wasn't a staple, but cheese, butter
>and sour milks were.
hello, Irene.
this argument shows up frequently. does the fact that the hunzas use dairy
prove anything at all, either pro dairy or against dairy? i do not know what
percentage of dairy products they use, but who knows, the whole situation
for them is so different, clean air, lots of sunshine, all organic food,
highly mineralized by a glaciar, they walk tens of miles a day in the
mountains, etc. Price also says they were friendly to each other. it can be
said that they do so good and live long _despite_ the dairy products, no? it
is not possible to know. there are so many variables of unknown impact in
the modern world that IMHO we can not extrapolate and say that if they use
dairy and are very healthy as an average and live long, then clean organic
dairy is good FOR US westerners that have been eating french fries and
chocolate and hamburguers for decades, got vaccinations, live indoors, do
not exercise like them, get little sunshine in comparisson, are exposed to
all sorts of weird man made things like electromagnetic polution,
pesticides, smog, artificial lights, etc. who KNOWS the combined effects of
all this? our world is too different from theirs.
with all this, how can we say that dairy was good for them? just because
they are as a population ok and they consume dairy products? we can very
well imagine the hunzas having NO dairy, all other things equal, and maybe
they would be healthier.
ok, there are no known vegan cultures. so what? Price is from this century.
there might have been raw vegan cultures in the past.
the use of dairy in cultures like the hunzas is because dairy is available,
right? is more of a cultural thing. it does not mean it is good for them nor
prove anything.
i know i sound like i am against dairy, but this is not my intention here.
all i am saying is that this is not a proof that perfect dairy is good for
you. maybe some of us, with all the negative influences mentioned above, can
improve our health with it.
if you have dairy and do better, great! but no generalizations, please.
a valid comparison would be to have two similar cultures with similar
conditions and one having dairy and the other raw vegan and then we compare
and draw conclusions.
i have recently read the description of the vegan study that Michael Klapper
is going to conduct. has anybody seen it? it is on his web site. really
comprehensive, and he is going to deal with the fact that some do better
with RAF.
To dismiss milks out of hand (and thereby
>dismissing the cultures who have successfully used it) is not getting a
>complete picture of the facts.
>
>Irene King
how do we know that the hunzas use dairy "succesfully"? they use it and they
are ok, thatīs all. no cause and effect here.
axel
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