Carol wrote:
>
> > Yes, it is interesting where one draws that line, but one cannot avoid
> > drawing it altogether.  (Note: I'm not saying that you said we could.)
> > Even those people who go around wearing masks so that they don't acci-
> > dentally inhale and kill teeny creatures of the air can't avoid it.
> > Their immune systems are killing things all the time.  So what is my
> > point?  Oh, I dunno... just that everyone kills.    Everyone.
> >
> > Maybe now would be a good time to bring up intention, eh?  :)
>
Forest replied:
>
> hi carol, yes i agree with what yer sayin, maybe the point is not so much
> where to draw the line, but a matter of adjusting the line as we go to be less
> and less killing, to be continually looking at ways to eat with less killing
> until old age calls us to surrender to the whole and we instead of Dr.
> Kavorkian approach to death, we stop eating and killing and wait for death to
> transform us.
>
>  the idea of wearing masks to avoid germ death inside is definately extreem.

It isn't to avoid germ death inside that they do it.  There is no
way to avoid that (and perhaps they grudgingly admit that).  They
do it to prevent the inhalation of gnats and similar critters.

> i was thinkin about that once and thought that perhaps an individual who was so
> non-violent would have a peaceful immune system and instead of attacking
> foreign objects entering would find a way to cooperate and transmute rather
> than attack and destroy. just a thought, no proof, but intuition is sometimes
> a crucial guide as well as science.

That's an interesting thought, but it's already happening that way to
a certain extent.  I mean, rather like the way the news puts all the
emphasis on the relatively minor percentage of human relations that
end up violently, medicine puts all its emphasis on the human/microbe
relationships that don't go so well for us.  But there are many bac-
teria etc. out there with which we get along just fine, probably many
more than cause us trouble.  In fact, the number of microorganisms
that we know to exert a positive benefit upon our health continues to
grow, and we know of at least one such relationship that has evolved
to the point that we are totally dependent on it (try to get along
without mitochondria).  While it is interesting to speculate upon
what a biology without killing would be like, I think it makes about
as much sense as the nature without killing.  If the day ever comes
when the lamb does lie down with the lion, it won't be long before we
have a world without lions, and that's a world that doesn't appeal to
me very much.

> ya lets bring up intention, what did you have in mind on that issue?

I seems to me that since we all kill, whether we want to or not, why
we kill when we do so intentionally and whether we enjoy it seem to
be the next questions.  Personally, I have little problem with people
who kill as humanely as they can for food that they believe they need,
but I'm still disturbed by those who are gleeful about it.  The more
they enjoy the "sport" of killing, the more I doubt that the fact that
they can eat what they kill has much at all to do with why they do it.

But perhaps I'm a hypocrite or a speciesist(?), because I would
certainly
find it much more disturbing if someone wanted to make a meal of a
human,
no matter how humanely.  So there's that darn line again... :)

Carol