Gary:
>It's interesting that you seem to pick up differences based on the degree
>of cooking. Stefansson emphasized that it was a popular misconception that
>he and Anderson ate much of their meat raw at Bellevue.
That certainly was my misconception until about a month ago...;)
>In his own words:
>"It proved that usually he (Anderson) leaned to medium cooking and I to
>well done." By well done he meant just a little pink inside.
Sounds like the standards for medium and well-done were a little different
in those day, since today well done is far from having any pink inside--but
I'm colorblind so maybe...
>Stefansson
>also pointed out that although the Eskimos ate some of their meat raw,
>especially fish (frequently "aged" fish), they ate the majority cooked
>(usually boiled).
Practices must have varied since I have read accounts of them thawing
frozen fish/meat over seal oil lamps. As I remember it much of their food
was dipped in seal oil before eating. But again, practices likely vary
considerably--as you pointed out regarding the Greenlanders. One word:
Eskimo--but many different cultures. BTW, doesn't the word Eskimo mean "who
eats it raw"? Or is that an old wive's (swapping ;)) tale?
>As far as your not being able to develop a liking for meat in competition
>with fruit, Stefansson points out that adapting to an all meat diet really
>takes a substantial amount of time (and suggests that there might be some
>relationship with how young and adaptable you are).
I have no problem on all meat when I cook it. When I tried to do it
entirely raw the taste would fall off after a few days generally.
<snip long and interesting quote>
>The inference is also clear from this that you will effectively preclude
>adaptation if you alternate between short term meat vs short term mixed
>diets. I'd guess that it has mostly to do with going in and out of ketosis.
>The human body probably takes considerably longer than most people realize
>to get completely (optimally) adapted to a ketogenic diet. Something to
>keep in mind.
Since, the Eskimos were the extreme in terms of eating such a high
percentage of animal foods (the "norm" being what, 50-60% calories from
animal foods--which means a heck of a lot of plant food still) I think we
might view them as one end of the continuum in human alimentation regarding
the animal/plant foods ratio. Isolating a single hunter-gatherer group and
glorifying their diet has its problems. My point being this: it sounds to
me that few of our paleolithic ancestors were in ketosis for most of their
lives. (I'm interesting in other opinions on that, of course.) While
ketosis is probably useful for us switching from high carb diets, is it the
goal of paleodieting? How many of the listers here figure they are in
ketosis most of the time?
FWIW, when I would overdo avocados (esp over-ripe ones) I would get
"mediciney breath" as my wife called it (kinda like alchohol, she said). I
took that to me a sign of overeating fat. But no matter how much animal fat
I eat (whether raw fatty fish, or raw marrow, or raw of cooked fatty beef)
I have no symptoms of overeating it. Hmmm... This puzzles me since I
considered that the loss of attraction of the raw animal foods (RAF) after
a couple days meant I had had my fill and anymore would be overdoing it.
Now, with cooked meat the attraction never seems to wane.
>As far as any "danger" -
>Significant short term overconsumption of fat is essentially self limiting.
>For one thing, fat very quickly induces satiety. On an all meat diet,
>Stefansson is emphatic that too much fat will cause you to get nauseous,
>toss your cookies, and then recover and be OK.
Sounds like unmistakable symtoms ;)
>Longer term, the effects of
>eating too much fat on a mixed diet are obvious.
I don't get it. Do you mean wieght gain. Isn't most of that weight gain
supposedly the result of veggie oils and processed carbs.
>On a keto diet - I don't
>know. The Belleveue results suggest that an all meat diet is not - by
>itself - an effective way to decrease total cholesterol, but then,
>cholesterol per se may not be the fundamental concern it's made out to be.
>(We also don't know how HDL and LDL varied at Bellevue.)
I'll be curious to see what my levels are down the line if I keep at this meat.
>As far as what to monitor:
>If you're on an all meat diet, I'd guess that what you'd want to do would
>be to simply eat as low a percentage fat as you can without generating the
>symptoms of lean protein excess. That's the best you can do anyway. Usually
>keto diets tend to allow as much fat as you want, counting on hunger to
>rein things in. My guess is that for some people, even on a keto diet,
>hunger can be a bit out of wack with minimal/optimal requirement (e.g.
>Anderson vs Stefansson).
Interesting perspective. I hope some more folks pipe in on this issue!
Cheers,
Kirt
Secola /\ Nieft
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