Rex,

Thanks for all the great info about the refractometer. Before you wrote we
called our local state univ ag dept and we've ordered a catalog of loads of
neat sounding devices. They quoted us a price of $80 for a decent
refractometer.

<< And, I can privately e-mail you a scanned chart if you want to examine the
quality ranges  >>

Yes I would appreciate this very much!!  email: [ [log in to unmask] ]

JL,
<<  Other fruit pits also contain cyanogenic glycosides and are hazardous to
ingest in large quantities. >>

This question was raised on the other list a few wks ago. It was said that
these compounds have a different shape than the cyanide that is a poison, and
are harmless. Do you happen to have handy pictures of the molecules? Or
information to the contrary?

Kirt,
<< Intuition and ideology are not similar to me though.>>

They're not similar to me either, but I find it a little difficult to express
the difference.  When I think of rigid idealogues that I know, it's something
about the tone of their conviction that doesn't ring true somehow.  Either the
iron rigidity and closed-mindedness of it, or, my uncomfortable sense that
their theory comes from the intellect only - from the "head" and not from the
"heart." Almost as if they started with the end conclusion and then
constructed in their head a seemingly logical sequence of assumptions, to
convince themselves of (and be able to defend to others) the "truth" of
something. Or, that there is really another issue underneath, or another
agenda, or something.  The idealogue's most often very vocal insistence that
everyone else "see the light" just has a very different sound from someone who
says, quietly, thoughtfully, "I don't know why, but I just somehow have a gut
feeling that this is true."

<< as easy as it is to romaticise about a 6 week old daughter, she is more an
example of the double-edged sword than perfection to me. Born so absolutely
helpless and immature for so long >>

Kirt, I may not be following you here.  If you are meaning to say that she is
not an example of the perfection of human nature because she is helpless and
immature, then I guess we're thinking of different definitions for
"perfection." What I mean when I say that human nature is perfect (before it
begins to get twisted around) is that every person is born with:

** a vast flexible, intelligence, (she may not have much experience yet, but
she is awesomely intelligent),
** with a limitless capacity to love and be loved deeply and closely,
** with the hard-wired drive to heal both physically and emotionally from
whatever life's challenges present (software, not hardware - can't grow a new
arm or replace a frontal lobe)
** with a passionately playful enthusiasm for life,
** COMPLETELY good (not "mostly" or "almost" but _COMPLETELY_  good)
(I realize this last one goes against several theologies that have human
nature to be inherently evil - and I don't mean to offend. But I disagree
totally),
** and lastly, immensely powerful (meaning courage, decisiveness, and the
ability to lead and inspire others)

I have seen, and am convinced, that these are qualities that are inherent in
the nature of being human. The fact that they get stomped on, and  twisted,
doesn't mean that underneath the debris they are not still completely viable.
I've seen people "change" so totally that you would think they had exchanged
DNA. With the right conditions people's true nature emerges, and you get the
real person that was just waiting to "blossom." (And I have also seen people
who struggle forever and, even though privately they feel that they were meant
for greatness, they haven't been able to find the resources to clean up
whatever is occluding this).

<< absolute need of human infants means they are perhaps even more vulnerable
to mistreatment at the hands of their caregivers, caregivers who can believe
things which are not useful. >>

I agree - but nature has made a provision for such accidents. Because it is a
part of life that infants are vulnerable not only to mistreatment by other
humans, but to attacks by large animals, too, or spider bites, or something
poisonous in mother's milk, etc.

<< These things can probably reverberate throughout ones entire life. >>

I think they can - since many years later people seem to be able to remember
things, images, sounds, etc., from early infancy.  But again, the body will
heal if allowed to.

<< perhaps our big brain and its ability soak up such early pain throughout a
lifetime as ideation is the double-edged sword needed for survival, albiet
neurotic survival to a lessor or greater degree.>>

IMO it would not be pro-survival for a body to impede its flexible
intelligence permanently.  Just like it would not be pro-survival for the body
to become permanently impaired from the ingestion of a Twinkie.  So the body
(which includes the intelligence as part and parcel of the whole "Mind/Body"
system) creates a temporary solution, to handle the "accident" imposed upon
it, with the "intention" of cleaning up the mess AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

The rest is history.  "We" or "they" or "whatever" gets in the way of this
process, and weird distortions happen - physically and/or mentally. (On second
thought - one is probably always accompanied by the other, since its all part
of one integrated organism, how could it be otherwise).

Anyway - that's my "understanding" or "philosophy" of health and human nature.

<< Basically kind--yeah, but "perfect"? Naw, if for no other reason than it is
an unreasonable and unattainable model.>>

Why?  Why _not_ assume that "perfect" describes your own true nature (or
Melissa's if its easier to have higher expectations for someone else), and
wonder why she is not acting in accordance with it. To me that seems like the
only useful, hopeful, and consistent-with -reality, perspective to take!

<<  newbies coming on and thinking jr's list was the extent of the raw online
universe,   thinking that the self-appointed gurus were universally respected
in the "raw community" >>

Yes - well now that I an reinstated, and anarchy is encouraged :)), (have you
heard?), I guess I will be able to be more bold and forthright.  I wonder if
the invitation to anarchy means that those of you here who were booted off are
now welcome to re-join jr's list? I would like that, since I think it would be
sooooooooo useful.

Lots of Love,    Liza
[log in to unmask] (Liza May)