>I ask of you please in the future to refrain from calling anybody
>"murderers" or "fascists" who not by own admission or by the general
>public are considered to belonging to such categories.

Bo7b:
>Our options on using "names", "labels", seem to include:
>        1--Don't use labels or names.
>        2--Use only "politically correct" labels/names
>        3--Use only "accurate" labels/names (if folks are offended,
>          they can choose to not read those parts of those posts)
>        4--Use whatever you like

>#1 Promotes confusion, lack of clarity, failure of communication,
>cognitive dissonance & craziness.  I'm opposed & would find any media
>(even including RawFood list) useless with this restriction

I agree.

>#2 (Your request?) promotes the same results, only worse, 'cause
>INACCURATE, INAPPROPRIATE, EUPHEMISTIC, STUPID labels are used instead
>of NONE.  So I'm even MORE opposed.

That is in the eye of the beholder. My point is that your comparing
Janet Reno to Hitler is likely to be offensive to some people thereby
causing separation & alienation which is not conducive to the open
exchange of ideas this list is about. You can very easily express
exactly what you think of Reno without having to use such a comparison.

>#3  My choice.  BUT "accurate" implies we all understand & use the
>same definitions (so that in their discussion of "trunks", Stefan's
>not thinking of a suitcase while Jean-Louis's thinking of a swimsuit &
>Ellie's thinking of the front of an elephant) & probably there's not
>enough time/space in this forum to establish all that for
>"off-subject" stuff like politics, economics, philosophy & ethics?

No reason to make a dissertation out of this. ;-) A little common sense
and courtesy is all we need to keep the list running smoothly.

>#4  What we've & done & will continue to do regardless of any "rules"
>we all agree to.  :-)

Not quite, because if these guidelines are not respected, I will at
some point have to assert myself as moderator and protect what I see as
the common good of this list. That is the purpose of having a moderator
in the first place.

>CLARIFICATION on the two examples you offered (labeling folks
>"murderers" & "Fascists". The definitions I used:
>MURDER:  one who initiates the use of force resulting in the death of
>another human who did NOT initiate the use of force.
>FASCIST:  (root derived from "fascia", the bundles of sticks used as a
>a symbol of power in roman times)--one who advocates or lives by
>Fascism, which is the system whereby government allows people to "own"
>the means of production,

A murderer to me more often than not is somebody who has the intent to
kill. A fascist to me is a violent, racist thug who disrespects all
democratic and humanistic values. Your taking more time to explain
yourself helps a bit but does not help with the connotations people
inadvertently from years of conditioning give these words especially
when applied to people who they feel are not deserving of these labels.
On the other hand if you call Mussolini or the white supremacy movement
fascist or Jack the Ripper a murderer you are not likely to offend
anybody - not even the people involved who probably would claim to be
"proud" of such of characterizations.

Bob:
>Reasonable request; I accept.  And I object to the "general public"
>getting to decide who's OK to be labeled by us for what they be. ;-)

No matter what society you try or even manage to create, you will
always have to live with some social restriction on personal expression
from the outer environment. When you are married you do not have the
same freedom as when you were single and when you are interacting with
people in this forum, you are not as free to express yourself as when
you are by yourself in the shower. If I were to attend a local militia
meeting, I would not get offended or start talking about my
constitutional rights if I was told to shut up about my unconditonal
love for Reno or Clinton.  For in that context such talk would seem
offensive, and if I wanted to get them to listen to me, I would never
succeed by pushing their emotional buttons in such a manner. As I have
mentioned before in my country nude bathing is generally accepted but
if I go to a beach in Greece, I cannot expect the same freedom of
expression and to insist on exercising this otherwise God-given right
would be very insensitive and selfish of me.

Best, Peter
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