Dave Karas:
> >However, if he doesn't want to discuss something, he will not respond. I
> tried to >discuss eating raw meat with him privately and he did not respond.
Peter:
> This is indeed his privilege.
> Dave Karas:
> >I knew him when he was living in southern California six years ago. As a
> >former majordomo list owner, I have tried to help him with
> >configuration problems when he has asked.
> Maybe he found somebody else to help him or maybe he did not feel he had a
> problem in the first place. In any case, I think we should respect his
> right to privacy and refrain from discussing these matters publicly.
I agree about respecting his privacy, and I apologize, jr, for bringing
this issue up in the first place.
To set the record straight, since I posted jr's "The end" here, I
feel that I must include the following:
----------
From: JR Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 13:01:56 -0500
Subject: yes bob
bob told me to resubscribe them
so i did
you would think i would have more confidence in my own decisions
oh well
-----------
From: JR Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 19:06:59 -0500
Subject: anarchy
absolutely everyone,
[..]
as for this
i think bob is right
the list should be free
there should be a place in the known universe where anyone can speak
and i think i should take bobs advice
so the list will be free from my control and leadership
i have always been a bad leader
i am surprised that the list became as successful as it did
probably because i hadn't tried to moderate it at all
but lately i have become unhappy with the list
and it seems to have hurt the spirt, not helped it
so i am sorry
i will not stop anyone from subscribing
i will not tell people what to do
i am sure that many of you, if not most
will like it better this way
the problem is that i wanted something different from the list
i wanted the list to turn into a support group
something similar to what i had grown to depend on with
12 step meetings
and it doesn't seem that the two kinds of lists can be the same right now
so this list can stay anarchy
the only thing i will do is to subscribe people when they request it
and unsubscribe people when they have the wrong syntax
or when their account is not working
i suppose in the extreme
there might be a time when everyone on the list
might ask me to take some action
and that might be a different story
but that hasn't come close to happening
and i doubt it will
am sorry for being so controlling
you are on your own
good luck
love,
jr
---------------------
jr resubscribed me to raw-digest about 4-5 hours after he originally
unsubscribed us.
Having run a list before myself, I realize the amount of time and
effort it takes, and the difficulties encountered - bounced mail
from full mailboxes or bad addresses, "me too" and "thanks" posts
with added content nor supporting context, disrespect, disagreements,
and flamers. raw is jr's list, he is certainly entitled to run it
in the way that he sees fit, and I will respect and abide by any decisions
that he makes. I can see why Dave stood up for jr before when I
questioned jr's directness, and will not offer any more words
critical of jr at this juncture.
> Dave Karas:
> >I think, in his eyes, you continued the thread after he had asked to
> >end it.
Yes, I made one more post after he requested me to end it - guilty
as charged. However, that one post was a followup to NFL themselves,
as they made their "Reponse from NFL" post (also after jr's moratorium).
Indeed I disobeyed jr, but so did NFL, and this was their only significant
response to the plagiarism issue that we got out of them. I apologize
for breaking jr's silence on this issue, but not for the content of
my response to NFL.
> Dave Karas:
> > I think that they should paste an insert into all copies of the book
> >stating the true author and that they had only modernized it.
Peter:
> Now you are talking. :-)
> Dave Karas:
> > Until this happens I would not buy anything coming out in their names.
Peter:
> You are a very prudent consumer. :-)
I kind of liked Liza's take on this issue, where she stated that she
had gotten the book pulled off of two local bookstore shelves due to
the p word, and I feel inclined to do the same here.
Dave Karas:
> >Also I got tired of bounced messages coming back to my in box, so I
> >have set the list to full auto delete. If your mail box gets full,
> >listserv deletes you without my ever seeing it. AOL has this problem
> >more than any other provider. Unless I have unsubscribed someone for
> >cause, they can re-subscribe when their mail problem is fixed.
Peter:
> Good for you. You have been very patient in dealing with this on-going
> hassle.
My hats off to you Dave as well - much appreciated.
<David Mayne:
<< It somewhat surpises me that he kicked off Liza as well. >>
Liza:
>I'm curious as to why that surprises you. I myself am only medium surprised,
>since like I say a couple of weeks ago (Feb 17) he had sent me an enigmatic
>poetry like the one above in which he conveyed that he felt personally deeply,
>deeply wounded by my anti NFL comments (which I had thought were mild).
>Evidently he took them as a personal attack. (And I used to think he was a
>cool guy!!).
Well, I became known amongst some as a "mailing-list terrorist" for
posting on the NFL, and I did not see that type of reaction against
your posts, Liza, so that is why I was surprised. You appeared to have
some meaningful conversations on a variety of topics with others on
raw, so I figured it would be harder for jr to justify kicking you off.
Tom Billings:
>Perhaps the raw movement is splitting - no big deal, as it is in portions
>already - into two parts: a realist/honest wing, and the fanatic/cult wing.
>Will the cult wing build a commune, "Fruit-town", in San Diego? :-)
>If so, will they force their members to attend drills where they must
>drink grape kool-ade? :-)
Funny, Tom ! Yes, I can think of very few movements where everyone
stood together (save for that cocacola commercial where everyone
keeps company in "perfect harmony") (-:
Can these two groups coexist on one mailing list, or more broadly,
in one diverse world ? If we keep the spirit of civility in mind,
I would hope so.
Regards,
David
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