>>>> Nieft / Secola <[log in to unmask]> 12/04/96 03:25pm >>>
>>>(snip) ... my (un)notions of philosophy, spiritualism, religion (as well as
>>>>I'm a guy, who for deep-seated reasons was pretty
>>>>much into intellect stuff, figuring it out, making sense of it all...
>>>No need to explain this away.  I know I'm like this, and from what I'm
>>>reading here, most of the people on this list are like this.

>>You missed the point. I -was- like that, primarily.

>No, I got it that you were talking about past tense.  What I was
>responding to was your qualifying "for deep-seated reasons."

I hear you. :)

>>>>Moral codes are useful or not, but they aren't Right or Wrong.
>>>I don't disagree with this.

>>Most people don't and that's fine fine fine (until they start shooting me,

>or blasting me on veg-raw:) for not living up to their version of Right and
>Wrong...)Was I doing this?  Didn't mean to.  My only intent is to express my
>perspective, like everyone else has been doing.  Kind of like, "hey, I'm
>here too, see me?"

No, you weren't doing it at all! Where have I gone wrong? sending you that
message. I see you and was delighted enough to banter with you, and still
am!

>>>feel as if I'm coming to a crossroads and am frozen because I don't
>>> know which way to go.

>>Maybe there is no solution to the issue as formulated. So the high road
>>stuff is getting stale to me. Big wow. I trust your thawing in whatever
>>direction doesn't need my commentary to be useful.

I was worried that wouldn't be taken right--just meant that you needn't
worry what I think of this issue of that issue or your position on same.

>But, I do tend to try to figure things out, the "right"
>way or "best" way, and I guess my nose is a little out of joint when
>someone dismisses a subject so near to my heart as boring or unworthy
>of him or simply tired out.

I'm truly sorry. I wasn't meaning to offend you. I was just loosening up in
the dialogue since I thought we were cool with each other.

>>>(snip)  What I don't like is violence.

>>Then you don't "like" nature which is full of violence and your efforts to
>>be "natural" (if that is what you are trying to be) may be frustrating at
>>best and full of denial and self-contempt at worst. Starting to sound like
>>Peter here, eh?

>So Kirt, are you saying that you *like* violence?
>Anyway, you're right about the frustration, to the extent that I let it bother
>me.  I pretty much accept what goes on as the bad I have to take along
>with the good.  So I don't like nature, but I also do like nature.
>Yeah, you're sounding a little like Peter, but that's OK.  Peter makes good
>sense (IMHO).

IMHO as well!

> NFL has not posted anything to which I've
>felt inclined to reply *to the content*.  If I went around pointing out
>hostility
>everywhere I think I see it, there'd be a lot more posts from me than
>you've already been seeing!  One thing about the tree three, they don't do
>much to support the theory that veganism engenders a peaceful nature.
>:-(

You can say that again.

>>>(snip most of fictional dialogue)
>>>at least no more land will have to be destroyed.  And maybe even
>>>some can be recovered.  We need to control our population.

>>The logical conclusion of a deep ecology stance is murder and/or
>>suicide. I have an instinct against such behavior at present. :)
>???  I was thinking more of birth control.

Yes, I was being too cavalier. :(

>>KN: Wanna play frisbee?
>>MS: Sure, but isn't that frisbee made of plastic.
>>KN: Yes, and unrecyclable plastic, as well. But its the best excuse for
>>plastic I've ever come across.
>>MS: OK, but just for a little while, I've gotta get home to see if any new
>>veg-raw posts came through.
>>KN: Me too. It's really been cutting into my frisbee time lately.

>Is this your way of saying we need to get lives?     :-)

No, no, no! Martha nothing in the post was written with the intention of
being in any way mean to you (just the opposite!!). Please chalk it up to
the "email sounding ruder than it is" business. I need to watch out what I
say I guess!! Please know that I value your ideas! (even if I haven't much
to say about the vegan identity crisis business--there are likely enough
people on the list in the same boat that I don't need to be involved in the
thread!)

The dialogue was a chide at my own time (way too much) spent on-line, and a
(failed!!) attempt at a joke, and some simple frisbee fun. _I_ need to get
a life lately!!

Cheers (really truly!)
Kirt