Axel asks:
>> -- Do you know anything about the possible chemical/molecular cause of what
>>you are saying? What could be about animal fats that our bodies crave and
>>that could not be satisfied with plant fats?

Axel, that is an extremely pertinent question, methinks! I'm
listening....but since our bodies do require Vit A, and D(fish liver oil),
perhaps....? Isn't it interesting that although the Eskimo's cannot raise
vegetables and fruits, they get enough vitamins and fat from meat alone??(Of
course, they can pay a fortune for "fresh" shipped in stuff these days, but
that's new in their history).Somewhere I read that they learned early on
thatt polar bear liver contained such abnormally high amounts of vit A that
was actually lethal; they leave the liver frozen and eat very small piecs of
it every so often during the year! I can see the understanding of toxicity
there, but ---Kirt---how do you suppose they learned the need for the
vitamin A (and whatever else, the pharmacy of the animal world!>?

Kirt replies,
>Generally, the vegans will say that there is no difference that matters,
>that one can get all the fatty acids needed from plant foods and the human
>body can metabolize the rest. ...snip...
>Ronald Schmid, ...snip ...agrues basically that proper fat metabolism
>from vegetable, nut and seed oils is frought with possible problems related
>to stress, other nutritional deficiencies, alcohol, etc....snip....

>"Some strict vegetarians eat many fresh raw greens and sprouts. ...snip... Th
>subtle aspects of fatty-acid metabolism discussed above help explain their
>relative good health--their bodies make EPA from alpha-linoleic acid.

>"Minmizing sources of excessive linoleic and arachidonic acids, while
>emphasizing sources of EPA, DHA, and alpha-linolenic acid, favors the
>metabolic pathways producing EPA. Sources of linoleic and arachidonic acids
>include most vegetable, nut, and seed oils, and fatty meats and dairy
>products from grain-fed animals. Sources of EPA, DHAm and alpha-linolenic
>acid include fish and shellfish, meat and dairy products from grass-fed
>animals, and green vegetables, including lettuce and other salad greens.
>The small amounts of linoleic acids the body requires are supplied by such
>a diet." (p.78)

I have a copy of Adele Davis's "Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit", 1970, so much
easier to understand than a biochem tome--all that same knowledge with a
spoonful of sugar.   :). It is almost too worn to hold together. She studied
at Perdue, graduated from U.C.at Berkeley, did postgrad  at U.of S.Cal. and
then got her Master of Science in biochem from U.of S.Cal Med school. She
emphasizes that a lack of fat can cause as many abnormalities as any other
nutrient, but that except for linoleic  they can be synthesized from sugars.
Linoleic, tho, is unique in that it can be substitued for with other fatty
acids, and sustain life, but not health; it is vital to life.Corn, soybean,
and cottonseed oils are rich in it, and safflower oil furnishes 905.
***Avocados, almonds, and olive oil contain but little, and coconut and palm
oils, none (We know these contain highly saturated fat, taboo!) Isn't that
intriguing? (if you crave avocado, is it a fatty acid which can sub for
linoleic that you need?)

She notes that linoleic, linolenic and arachidonic acids (now known as
Vit.F) and other fatty acids are "chains; if hydrogen attaches to it it
becomes solid (saturated); if O2, it becomes oxidized (rancid). Thus the
need for antioxidents--sorry, you know that..My cousin was a prisoner of war
of the Germans in WWII for a year. When freed, he was starved, emaciated,
and first edible thing he found was a tin of rancid butter. When help came,
he was hospitalized for three months in England. He returned home,
apparently just fine, and started a family. But altho there was no history
of heart problems in our families, none at all, he died of a heart attack at
age 45, a sure statistic of the war I believe. I don't tell you this to
shock, but to underline the need for fresh, safe nutrients, as you are
propounding. Keep your fats, seeds, grains(?) refrigerated, please!

Tom, you are schooled in exalted company. I would love to at least see that
set-up some day. Poor little 'Liza, never been farther west than Tulsa.
Pitiful, isn't it?

Pat