alister air writes:
> Martin William Smith wrote:
> >Are you saying the Serbs are doing even more inhuman things that are
> >being covered up by the bombing?  As if what we do know about isn't
> >bad enough?  What do you mean by cover?
>
> Yes, it's getting worse.

That is not what I asked.  You are saying the Serbs are doing things
under the cover of the bombing, that the bombing is covering these
additional atrocities and preventing us from seeing them.  But
somehow, you *know* about these covered up atrocities anyway, because
here you claim you know that the atrocities you can't see are getting
worse.

What we know about is bad enough.  NATO has taken the decision that
before NATO or the UN can do anything about it, the Serb military
capability must be reduced to the point where NATO and/or UN ground
forces can go in safely and maintain a stable situation so a political
settlement can be reached.  I don't know why NATO and the UN don't
just say that, unless they really don't believe it themselves.  So
maybe there really is a committee of 100 somewhere, a group of wealthy,
evil geniouses pulling economic and political strings.  We'll know for
sure when we see the cigarette smoking man in the background.

To the extent that the situation is getting worse in Kosovo, and I
think it is, isn't it likely that it is because the Serbs have chosen
to make it worse, and they have chosen to make it worse because they
know they are running out of time to finish the job?

> The bombing gives the perfect pretext for "relocation" of Albanian
> Kosovars.

Pretext?  What pretext?  A pretext is a fictitious reason given to
conceal the real one, or it is a specious excuse.  Which definition do
you want to use?  Do you mean that Milosevic can say "We are ridding
the land of albanians because we are being bombed."? And this is a
"perfect" pretext?  Do you mean you accept that perfect pretext as
justification for what is happening?

> You'd be aware that it's certainly lending Milosovic support, and
> hardening opinion against the Albanians - so some otherwise moderate
> Serbs aren't going to be so concerned about Albanians getting killed
> off.

No, I'm not aware of that.  You seem to be saying that Serbs are not
very intelligent people, or that they are downright stupid.  Do you
mean that when a Serb sees NATO bombs destroying his country's
military, he will reason that the Albanians are causing the bombing?
No, Serbs are not stupid.  They know the Albanians are not the cause
of the bombing.

> >Do you mean they have accelerated their effort to clear the region of
> >all albanians?  Why else would they do that - just when the bombing
> >started - if not because they know they are running out of time to get
> >it done?
>
> Because they can do whatever they like now that it's war.

Then what are they doing now that they weren't doing before?  It was
already war.  NATO just wasn't in it.

> Look - if NATO was in any way serious about stopping Albanian
> casualties, they would have sent in ground forces.  It's the only
> way to stop what's going on, now that they've started air strikes
> (which are largely ineffectual).  Stopping Albanians being killed
> can only be done on the ground.

I agree.  And neither NATO nor the UN should send ground forces into a
situation they cannot control.  I wouldn't be willing to go into an
uncontrolable situation myself, and I wouldn't ask anyone else to do
it.

> >Then by not bombing we could reduce his support.  The longer we don't
> >bomb, the less support he will have.  If we hold back the bombing long
> >enough, eventually his support will drop to 0.  But by then, the
> >albanians will be scattered all over Europe.
>
> Bombing by itself accomplished absolutely nothing.  It doesn't even break
> down the military.  It removes a part of its ability to function - it'll
> take out the air force

It certainly does break down the military, and eliminating the air
threat is the standard first step.  Ground forces cannot go in until
the air force is eliminated as a threat.

> - but nothing will stop ground troops.  The territory is such that
> you can hide armies down there without them being spotted from the
> air.  Guess what the paramilitary forces are doing?

They're doing what they have been doing for some time.  I agree that
the bombing will not stop those forces.  It isn't meant to, regardless
of what you hear on the TV.  Why don't you ignore what you hear on the
TV?  It sounds like you are paying attention to a lot of bad
information.

> >No.  Milosevic, too, will pass.  If the people want him for a leader,
> >they can have him.  If they don't want him, they have to get him out.
>
> What, leaving aside the fact that he now exercises a pretty firm control
> over... well, everything?  How easy would it be to get him out now?

It isn't NATO's task to get him out, but he won't last forever.

martin

Martin Smith                    Email: [log in to unmask]
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